SM9.41 Codeless seems to support legacy 'stuff

I was given to believe that Codeless would not support lots of legacy functions and tools.  Specifically mentioned was Format Controls.  I was told that to use Format Controls, we would have to create Rules to call the Format Controls.

However, we unloaded a block of code from our 9.21 implementation and loaded it to 9.4x and it works.  This code includes old format controls.

What am I failing to understand?



Stacy Whetzell


  • Hi Stacy,

    Having not done this myself, this is purely guess work based on reading the documentation. SM 9.41 has a hybrid mode which support legacy code . More info can be found in online help or the 9.41 release notes. So that's the reason why the format controls will work. SM 9.41 still have to cater for hybrid.

    What i'm puzzled about is why your SM 9.21 legacy code was not migrated across to SM 9.41 and that you have to copy them across. In hybrid mode, you get to keep your legacy code and PD is wrapped around them. The upgrade path is from sm 9.21 to SM 9.31 with PDCP3 and the PD Migration Tool will help bring your legacy code over for SM9.41 Hybird Mode. PDCP3 is the crucial bit according to the doc, as its say only SM 9.31 PDCP3 is allow Hybrid mode. Maybe your upgrade skipped PDCP3.

    All guesses so far. Upgrade experts please comment. I miss John Stagaman.


  • All process designer workflows invoke legacy tailoring compoentns at record save. From the start process designer was intended to allow for legacy tailoring investments to be leveraged, and this also allowed a staged development of the PD frameworks. So if your PD workflow uses a form for which form-level format control is defined, the format control is invoked automatically.

    For example, the early Change PD build still calls master format control. (in other Objects, the master format control field has been blanked out, but if you add it back: TaDa! Master format control is called. I don't really recommend this, though, as it gets messy when migrating to a PD/Codeless workflow).. Note that related components called from the legacy document enging Processes (e.g. calls to the notification engine, SLA calls) are not present in the new, shiny codeless processes, so they need to be added via ruleSets in your PD flows. It actually provides a good opportunity to move to HTML notifications and reassess the notification sent as part of the upgrade. The Hybrid mode option  takes adavantage of the ability for codeless to invoke classic tailoring elements and includes additional elements that simplify translating your existing build into PD (invoking SLA, options to invoke legacy display components, etc. without reimplementation, etc.  

    The order of processing is described in the PD Tailoring Guide in the section "Considering Rule Set Execution Order" (9.40 version attached - note that the 9.41 version may include more information specific to Hybrid mode). Notice that the PD execution order diagram includes format control. This is base funcationality and it not unique to Hybrid Mode and has always been included in the PD architecture.


  • Thanks so much,

    We are totally experimenting at this time a sandbox.

    You are correct in that you cannot "intstall" Hybrid.  Hybrid is available only as one of the optional upgrade paths.

    You can install Codeless or Classis OOTB.

    We installed Codeless, but then to our surprise legacy Unload packages from 9.21 work on 9.41 codeless.  I was surprised.


    I am leaning towards an OOTB installation of SM9.41 with a complete PD assisted rebuild of all our needed processes, rather than trying the upgrade path.  If the PD is as good as I've heard, I'm thinking that UPgrading our heavily customized 9.21 in order to eventually get to 9.41 Codeless (or Hybrid), they 9.41 OOTB codeless and rebuild may be more simple.

    Your Thouhts?


  • Thanks John,

    I wil be in touch soon.

    My number is 423-402-6728 if you would like to call.

    email is

  • Stacy,

    In regards to "We installed Codeless, but then to our surprise legacy Unload packages from 9.21 work on 9.41 codeless.  I was surprised."

    This may or may not help but things like format control still work in 9.41.  That is if you load some workflow from an old version of SM that has format control that does A, B and C. in 9.41 it will still do A, B and C.    The idea behind PD is the that the workflow is more visible, that is in theory you can see everything the workflow does by examining the Rules etc.  instead of things being buried in format control. 

    The 9.41 Codeless help server still has a full explanation of format control.

    Steve Hirschfeld

    HPE Support

  • Thank you Steve,


    Someone else had told me that you could use Format Controls, but you must build new Rules in order to use them.

    Is there a list anywhere of the Legacy functions, scripts, events, etc that are NOT supported natively in 9.4Codeless OOTB?

    Thank you

  • Good to see you back in the forums again, John. Always great to learn from you.