mcharbonneau@ot1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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Internal Sybase DB limit?

My colleague informs me that there's a device limit of approximately 1000
when using the internal Sybase DB (from his discussion with someone at
Novell) but we haven't found any such documented reference.

Anyone know for certain if this is true?

We have the system ready ZCM11 to start going live using the internal Sybase
DB and we're counting on Novell to provide a DB migration path from Sybase
to Microsoft SQL 2008 when they release ZENworks 11.1 (they told us this as
well).

If there is a device limit, we know we'll exceed it within about 6-12 months
so maybe we're better off building the system using MS SQL 2008 in
compatibility mode (in case Novell is slow to provide a DB migration path to
MS SQL). ?

Thanks for any help,
Marc


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12 Replies
Micro Focus Expert
Micro Focus Expert

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

There is not HARD limit.
It's a performance limit.

A simple number is often misleading, since so many things can impact DB
Load.

A couple of things......

#1 - ZCM 11 SP1 will include an updated version of Sybase that is also
much better. still not as good as MS SQL, but if you don't own MS-SQL
it could become a good option.

#2 - The intention is to have a Sybase->MS SQL Migration available in 11
SP1. However, don't put all of your eggs in that basket. Novell is
been working on this for a while and it has proven technically
difficult. By the sounds of things they are getting there, but the
migration may end up being tricky.

#3 - It's totally not supported and Novell could never recommend
installing ZCM 10.3.x on MS-SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility mode, but....
I'm not aware of there ever being any issue and if there was, it would
need to be in MS SQL failing to properly emulate. If I owned the MS-SQL
licenses and had to install a zone today, I would use MS-SQL 2008 in
compatibility mode.

On 3/15/2011 8:45 PM, Marc Charbonneau wrote:
> My colleague informs me that there's a device limit of approximately 1000
> when using the internal Sybase DB (from his discussion with someone at
> Novell) but we haven't found any such documented reference.
>
> Anyone know for certain if this is true?
>
> We have the system ready ZCM11 to start going live using the internal Sybase
> DB and we're counting on Novell to provide a DB migration path from Sybase
> to Microsoft SQL 2008 when they release ZENworks 11.1 (they told us this as
> well).
>
> If there is a device limit, we know we'll exceed it within about 6-12 months
> so maybe we're better off building the system using MS SQL 2008 in
> compatibility mode (in case Novell is slow to provide a DB migration path to
> MS SQL). ?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Marc
>
>



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.
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mcharbonneau@ot1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Thanks for the information on the no HARD limit.

I'm not really understanding your point on the SQL 2008 Compatibility mode?
In point #3 you say that SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility mode is not
supported, then in your last sentence you say that if you had SQL 2008 you
would use it in compatibility. ?
It sounds like there's two types of SQL 2008 compatibility modes the way you
describe it:
SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility Mode
and
SQL 2008 in Compatibillity Mode
Is this the case?

Please see the attached PDF from Novell. The supported SQL 2008
implementation today for ZENworks 11 is to use SQL 2008 with 2005
compatibility mode enabled.

Thanks,
Marc



"craig wilson" <craig_d_wilson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Z%1gp.23654$325.20947@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> There is not HARD limit.
> It's a performance limit.
>
> A simple number is often misleading, since so many things can impact DB
> Load.
>
> A couple of things......
>
> #1 - ZCM 11 SP1 will include an updated version of Sybase that is also
> much better. still not as good as MS SQL, but if you don't own MS-SQL
> it could become a good option.
>
> #2 - The intention is to have a Sybase->MS SQL Migration available in 11
> SP1. However, don't put all of your eggs in that basket. Novell is
> been working on this for a while and it has proven technically
> difficult. By the sounds of things they are getting there, but the
> migration may end up being tricky.
>
> #3 - It's totally not supported and Novell could never recommend
> installing ZCM 10.3.x on MS-SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility mode, but....
> I'm not aware of there ever being any issue and if there was, it would
> need to be in MS SQL failing to properly emulate. If I owned the MS-SQL
> licenses and had to install a zone today, I would use MS-SQL 2008 in
> compatibility mode.
>
> On 3/15/2011 8:45 PM, Marc Charbonneau wrote:
>> My colleague informs me that there's a device limit of approximately 1000
>> when using the internal Sybase DB (from his discussion with someone at
>> Novell) but we haven't found any such documented reference.
>>
>> Anyone know for certain if this is true?
>>
>> We have the system ready ZCM11 to start going live using the internal
>> Sybase
>> DB and we're counting on Novell to provide a DB migration path from
>> Sybase
>> to Microsoft SQL 2008 when they release ZENworks 11.1 (they told us this
>> as
>> well).
>>
>> If there is a device limit, we know we'll exceed it within about 6-12
>> months
>> so maybe we're better off building the system using MS SQL 2008 in
>> compatibility mode (in case Novell is slow to provide a DB migration path
>> to
>> MS SQL). ?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Marc
>>
>>

>
>
> --
> Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
> Novell Knowledge Partner
>
> Novell does not officially monitor these forums.
>
> Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
> These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.





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Micro Focus Expert
Micro Focus Expert

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

My point was a contradiction.....

What is Officially Supported and Official Recommendations vs....
What would I do.

Also, I was thinking this was a 10.3.x install.
Where it is not officially supported.. (See my Reference to 10.3 below.)

For ZCM 11, I would definitely using SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility Mode
if licensing was not an issue. That is supported.
No need to mess with a major database conversion in the future.





On 3/16/2011 10:42 AM, Marc Charbonneau wrote:
> Thanks for the information on the no HARD limit.
>
> I'm not really understanding your point on the SQL 2008 Compatibility mode?
> In point #3 you say that SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility mode is not
> supported, then in your last sentence you say that if you had SQL 2008 you
> would use it in compatibility. ?
> It sounds like there's two types of SQL 2008 compatibility modes the way you
> describe it:
> SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility Mode
> and
> SQL 2008 in Compatibillity Mode
> Is this the case?
>
> Please see the attached PDF from Novell. The supported SQL 2008
> implementation today for ZENworks 11 is to use SQL 2008 with 2005
> compatibility mode enabled.
>
> Thanks,
> Marc
>
>
>
> "craig wilson"<craig_d_wilson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Z%1gp.23654$325.20947@kovat.provo.novell.com...
>> There is not HARD limit.
>> It's a performance limit.
>>
>> A simple number is often misleading, since so many things can impact DB
>> Load.
>>
>> A couple of things......
>>
>> #1 - ZCM 11 SP1 will include an updated version of Sybase that is also
>> much better. still not as good as MS SQL, but if you don't own MS-SQL
>> it could become a good option.
>>
>> #2 - The intention is to have a Sybase->MS SQL Migration available in 11
>> SP1. However, don't put all of your eggs in that basket. Novell is
>> been working on this for a while and it has proven technically
>> difficult. By the sounds of things they are getting there, but the
>> migration may end up being tricky.
>>
>> #3 - It's totally not supported and Novell could never recommend
>> installing ZCM 10.3.x on MS-SQL 2008 in 2005 Compatibility mode, but....
>> I'm not aware of there ever being any issue and if there was, it would
>> need to be in MS SQL failing to properly emulate. If I owned the MS-SQL
>> licenses and had to install a zone today, I would use MS-SQL 2008 in
>> compatibility mode.
>>
>> On 3/15/2011 8:45 PM, Marc Charbonneau wrote:
>>> My colleague informs me that there's a device limit of approximately 1000
>>> when using the internal Sybase DB (from his discussion with someone at
>>> Novell) but we haven't found any such documented reference.
>>>
>>> Anyone know for certain if this is true?
>>>
>>> We have the system ready ZCM11 to start going live using the internal
>>> Sybase
>>> DB and we're counting on Novell to provide a DB migration path from
>>> Sybase
>>> to Microsoft SQL 2008 when they release ZENworks 11.1 (they told us this
>>> as
>>> well).
>>>
>>> If there is a device limit, we know we'll exceed it within about 6-12
>>> months
>>> so maybe we're better off building the system using MS SQL 2008 in
>>> compatibility mode (in case Novell is slow to provide a DB migration path
>>> to
>>> MS SQL). ?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help,
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> --
>> Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
>> Novell Knowledge Partner
>>
>> Novell does not officially monitor these forums.
>>
>> Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
>> These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

>
>



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.
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hellbeach Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

We are also in the midst of testing ZCM11 and we would like to use Sybase, mainly because we don´t have a MS SQL license and it feels like a waste having a server around with MS 2k3 or 2k8 just to service a database for ZCM11.
We have about 600 machines connected to our novell system today, but within a year or two it could be around 1500-2000.
For "primary zenworks server with Sybase database" hardware we have a choice of 1) A DL380G6 with two quadcore processors, 8 GB RAM and loads of HD (2 TB SAS I think), OR 2) a DL350G5 with two dualcore processors and 16 GB RAM.
Q1: Do you think the DL350G5 can do the job of "primary zenworks with sybase database" or do we need to go with the bigger hardware ?
Q2: If we also wan´t to run patch management through ZCM11 (we run it on a separate win2k3 box today but we wan´t to integrate it with ZCM11), will this be in the same Sybase database as the rest of the "zenwork stuff" ?
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nop19832 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Just a comment one the sql part; we have zcm 11 running ón a sql 2008R2. And so far no problems.
Ón the licens part, if you Got a licens for sql 2008 then you Can run it in All the old compability modes, no problem. Thère are however a few old options inside the sql Engine that is no longer supported, but not something that schould effect zcm 😉

-- Niels I have always liked... Cowabunga! If you find this post helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking on the star below. A member must be logged in before s/he can assign reputation points.
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Micro Focus Expert
Micro Focus Expert

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Either Should be fine.

Single Core Performance and Max Disk Performance are the Key for Sybase.

Splitting your DB server onto it's own physical box can be useful.

Avoid Virtualizing your DB server, it needs max performance more than
the ZCM Primary Server code.

Keep an Eye on your DB Size, If it grows to more than 2GB Per 1K
Devices, there is likely some cleaning you can do that will keep
performance up to snuff.

ZCM 11 SP1 will likely include a new version of Sybase that should be
much faster. Keep an eye out for the details of that when SP1 ships.


On 4/13/2011 1:36 PM, hellbeach wrote:
>
> We are also in the midst of testing ZCM11 and we would like to use
> Sybase, mainly because we don´t have a MS SQL license and it feels like
> a waste having a server around with MS 2k3 or 2k8 just to service a
> database for ZCM11.
> We have about 600 machines connected to our novell system today, but
> within a year or two it could be around 1500-2000.
> For "primary zenworks server with Sybase database" hardware we have a
> choice of 1) A DL380G6 with two quadcore processors, 8 GB RAM and loads
> of HD (2 TB SAS I think), OR 2) a DL350G5 with two dualcore processors
> and 16 GB RAM.
> Q1: Do you think the DL350G5 can do the job of "primary zenworks with
> sybase database" or do we need to go with the bigger hardware ?
> Q2: If we also wan´t to run patch management through ZCM11 (we run it
> on a separate win2k3 box today but we wan´t to integrate it with ZCM11),
> will this be in the same Sybase database as the rest of the "zenwork
> stuff" ?
>
>



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.
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nop19832 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Craig vrote: Avoid Virtualizing your DB server...

Being a DBA myself I would also recommend this, by default. Howewer, if you allready run your servers in ie vmware, then I would have no problem with that, but This, still Will only perform about 88% of the cappabilities as of a physical server (White paper from vmware). We have it in vmware and so far no problem, but if I had to choose by myself I would still go for a physical 😉

-- Niels I have always liked... Cowabunga! If you find this post helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking on the star below. A member must be logged in before s/he can assign reputation points.
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Micro Focus Expert
Micro Focus Expert

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

The main issue is that introduces a whole new array of potential issues
on the DB side if you are worried about issues. Often customers over
allocate memory and do other things that cause a significant loss in
performance.

Others Follow all of the best practice, benchmark, and fully understand
the ins and outs. Those who do, will not be concerned by my comments to
avoid virtualization. Those who do not, are the ones at a greater risk.



On 4/13/2011 4:36 PM, nop1983 wrote:
>
> Craig vrote: Avoid Virtualizing your DB server...
>
> Being a DBA myself I would also recommend this, by default. Howewer, if
> you allready run your servers in ie vmware, then I would have no problem
> with that, but This, still Will only perform about 88% of the
> cappabilities as of a physical server (White paper from vmware). We have
> it in vmware and so far no problem, but if I had to choose by myself I
> would still go for a physical 😉
>
>



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.
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nop19832 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Craig,

I Couldn't agree more. If you know your way around the traps, ie memory and CPU, then no problem 😉

/Niels

-- Niels I have always liked... Cowabunga! If you find this post helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking on the star below. A member must be logged in before s/he can assign reputation points.
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hellbeach Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Thanks for the good info !
So then this is my plan:
I will use the DL380G6 dual quadcore machine with 2 TB HD as a primary zen11 server.
I will use the older ML350G5 dual dualcore machine for sybase database.
Q1: How much HD will I need in this machine ?
Q2: To install Sybase database separatly on a server, can I do this with the zen11 install media or do I need to get a separate database install media from some other place ?
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nop19832 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Hellbeach,

Q1:I know that our db in SQL right now is 4GB (2500 clients, BUT no bundles yet), you can never get to much space 😉

-- Niels I have always liked... Cowabunga! If you find this post helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking on the star below. A member must be logged in before s/he can assign reputation points.
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nop19832 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Internal Sybase DB limit?

Ups...

Q2: You install the external db on the server before installing the ZCM. http://www.novell.com/documentation/zenworks11/pdfdoc/zen11_installation/zen11_installation.pdf Part 3.3.4, and then you schould be good to go 😉

/Niels

-- Niels I have always liked... Cowabunga! If you find this post helpful, please show your appreciation by clicking on the star below. A member must be logged in before s/he can assign reputation points.
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