chevymannie Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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Is it worth it?

We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs, but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it worth the time we spend on it?
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13 Replies
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

#1 - Yes, There have been more bugs than Novell would have liked to have
seen in the product, but I can honestly say the number are decreasing
rapidly and the nature of the bugs are morphing into ones only seen in more
isolated scendarios. I suspect that once you are on 10.1.2 and perhaps
10.1.3, things should be very good for you. In fact, starting with ZCM
10.0.3.2, customer satisfaction really began to climb. Mind you, that was
not the magic revision for everyone but one that many people started to
really start to see the product come out of its shell.

#2 - Right now, I would say the most common area in which folks are having
issues revolve aroung Group Polices and their effect on logon times. If you
are in a "Windows" shop, I presume you have a domain and are managing your
policies through the Domain so this would not effect you. While ZCM can
manage policies, I would actually use Domain policies in lieu of ZCM
policies but not because of a reliability or functionality reason. Rather,
I can use Domain policies to help ensure that the ZCM agent is installed and
operating properly through various scripts. Also, I can use ZCM to help
ensure a PC is properly in the domain. There are could be other ways to do
this, but I just like the idea of a bit of redundancy.

#3 - There is really not a product on the market (Excluding previous
versions of ZENworks) that come close to the feature set of ZCM and is
therefore very valueable. The one key I've always found about ZENworks is
that it does not stop working once the software is installed. ZENworks is
about controlling how the software runs after it's installed and not just
the installation of the software. That has really always been the key for
me.

(Quick Example - Let's say you have a ZEN shortcut to your "Outlook/Mail"
program and "Mail is Down". In ZCM, you can change the icon on the fly to
bring up a message that "mail is down" and what the users should do.
Otherwise, when mail is down your helpdesk just gets flooded with calls.
That is only a small example, but the list could go on for a long long
time...)


--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Support Forums Volunteer Sysop

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

"chevymannie" <chevymannie@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:chevymannie.3ktyco@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the
> product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs,
> but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The
> engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes
> they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this
> product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it
> worth the time we spend on it?
>
>
> --
> chevymannie
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> chevymannie's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=28319
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=355088
>



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nemajordude Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

We are a school district with more than 20,000 students and more than 5,000 Windows computers, and we don't run in a mixed Win/Novell server environment. We rely heavily on group policies to secure student desktops and so far we have not been able to use ZCM because of slow login times. I love what ZCM does and want to upgrade from Zen 7 but have not yet for this reason. If 10.1.2 does not speed up login times for us we may be stuck in a Zen 7 world for a long time. Zen 7 has its limitations in a large and distributed environment such as ours.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

ZCM 10.1.2 will does have some login performance gains for some customers,
but not if the issue was Group Policy related.
ZCM 10.1.3 will is expected to have some Group Policy performance changes,
though how much it helps any one person is tough to judge w/o deeper
analysis.

--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Support Forums Volunteer Sysop

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

"nemajordude" <nemajordude@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:nemajordude.3kvn05@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> We are a school district with more than 20,000 students and more than
> 5,000 Windows computers, and we don't run in a mixed Win/Novell server
> environment. We rely heavily on group policies to secure student
> desktops and so far we have not been able to use ZCM because of slow
> login times. I love what ZCM does and want to upgrade from Zen 7 but
> have not yet for this reason. If 10.1.2 does not speed up login times
> for us we may be stuck in a Zen 7 world for a long time. Zen 7 has its
> limitations in a large and distributed environment such as ours.
>
>
> --
> nemajordude
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> nemajordude's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=10934
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=355088
>



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

Let me get this straight - I have a huge installation, also government
education. We are doing POC soon, and login times is what could make
or break this installation (again).
But where is the problem here? Is it slower to have policies coming
from the domain, or from ZCM?

We are having a fight with OES2 sp1 DSfW (and we are a little
battleweary :-), so we are currently doing policies from ZCM - but is
that efficient enough?

Any thoughts?

>ZCM 10.1.2 will does have some login performance gains for some customers,
>but not if the issue was Group Policy related.
>ZCM 10.1.3 will is expected to have some Group Policy performance changes,
>though how much it helps any one person is tough to judge w/o deeper
>analysis.



Regards
Allan
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

Policies will be faster coming from a Domain at this point in time.
ZDM7 vs Domains was a wash, but ZCM will add some level of delay at this
point.

Most people do not see a huge delay, but some are and those are being
investigated.
If the devices are in a domain already, I would use the Domain to enforce
policies.

The main reason is Management Redundancy.
I can use ZCM to ensure that a PC is in a Domain and properly Managed.
I can use the Domain to ensure that a PC has ZCM and is properly Managed.



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Support Forums Volunteer Sysop

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

"Allan B. Clausen" <abc_remspam_@itq_remspam_.dk> wrote in message
news:sknjl4hlqqc5t98q8tvsv1ii45ao9hedau@4ax.com...
> Let me get this straight - I have a huge installation, also government
> education. We are doing POC soon, and login times is what could make
> or break this installation (again).
> But where is the problem here? Is it slower to have policies coming
> from the domain, or from ZCM?
>
> We are having a fight with OES2 sp1 DSfW (and we are a little
> battleweary :-), so we are currently doing policies from ZCM - but is
> that efficient enough?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>>ZCM 10.1.2 will does have some login performance gains for some customers,
>>but not if the issue was Group Policy related.
>>ZCM 10.1.3 will is expected to have some Group Policy performance changes,
>>though how much it helps any one person is tough to judge w/o deeper
>>analysis.

>
>
> Regards
> Allan



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Knowledge Partner Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Is it worth it?

nemajordude;1706012 wrote:
We are a school district with more than 20,000 students and more than 5,000 Windows computers, and we don't run in a mixed Win/Novell server environment. We rely heavily on group policies to secure student desktops and so far we have not been able to use ZCM because of slow login times. I love what ZCM does and want to upgrade from Zen 7 but have not yet for this reason. If 10.1.2 does not speed up login times for us we may be stuck in a Zen 7 world for a long time. Zen 7 has its limitations in a large and distributed environment such as ours.


10.1.2 did not speed up login time for us so I opened an SR but my support engineer haven't gotten back to me with anything in 2 weeks 😞

We are in the same situation, we need to have Windows GP deployd with login speed at least the same as in ZEN 7/4. So that's why we still have ZEN 4 and ZEN 7 to manage our enviroment.

Thomas
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mjgalloway Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

There are some great features in ZCM, particularly the web interface. But it's frankly just not as solid as ZfD7 is yet. In my opinion the only compelling reason to upgrade to ZCM from ZfD7 in its current state is Windows Vista support.

If you're still on 2000/XP on your workstations I'd just wait until ZCM is more reliable and stick with ZfD7 until then.

If you are going to deploy Vista to the workstations ZCM works. Yes, the login times are longer, but login times on a Vista workstation even without ZCM are longer in comparison to 2000/XP as well.

You could also look at a competing products, but I'm not convinced that it would be done better, and for an academic institution it would be difficult for them to match Novell's low price. I'm confident that Novell will eventually straighten out the problems with ZCM and make it as reliable as ZfD7.
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chevymannie Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

I understand where you all are coming from. We got ZCM with the hopes that it would be like ZD7 but so far it has not delivered. It ran fairly decently in a test environment but it sill lacks most of the functionality that we're looking for. I'm hoping the next major release adds more functionality and gets rid of all the bugs I've been dealing with since it was put into the production environment.
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whenz1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

mjgalloway - agree 100% 🙂
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

So far I like the product. I've been using Zen since the 3.2 days, so I
have a reasonable set of expectations for the product. I've not been
amused with Novell's execution on other products for a while now, but
ZCM, starting with 10.1 has been perfectly usable. We do not deploy
windows GP via Zen, its just easier to manage directly via a domain.
Maybe thats why we don't see what others are.

I will say, Application deployment has been great, MSI's that did not
work properly in ZfD7 (good MSI's, bad Zen) work perfectly. This is a
huge plus.

Connection to AD and NDS both work. DLU works. Remote control is better
than ever before, leveraging VNC is excellent.

Machine relationships finally work the way they should (this was
Workstation Associations in ZfD). Run once finally really means 'run
once' 😄

Imaging is robust and working well.

ZCM is really been a solid offering for us. We are even using it
successfully on a new completely mobile workgroup, I had figured there
would be more problems, but its solid.






chevymannie wrote:
> We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the
> product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs,
> but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The
> engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes
> they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this
> product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it
> worth the time we spend on it?
>
>

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

I'd be very interested to hear how you have this setup. Are you using IDM
to sync information between AD and eDirectory?

I hear that deploying user and workstation policies through AD is faster and
just works better than with ZFD/ZCM. I think that it would sometimes be
nice to have an AD environment to register workstations in, as some of our
management apps are really designed around being in a "domain" rather than a
workgroup.

I know you can make any workstation with a Novell client a member of a
domain. Applying user policies would mean that you need to be synchronizing
your eDirectory users to AD before you could apply policies to users or
containers.

How do you have this working, exactly?

Thanks!

-Ryan


"unsigned" <unsigned@digerati.us> wrote in message
news:bSK8l.14221$wo4.2231@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> So far I like the product. I've been using Zen since the 3.2 days, so I
> have a reasonable set of expectations for the product. I've not been
> amused with Novell's execution on other products for a while now, but ZCM,
> starting with 10.1 has been perfectly usable. We do not deploy windows GP
> via Zen, its just easier to manage directly via a domain. Maybe thats why
> we don't see what others are.
>
> I will say, Application deployment has been great, MSI's that did not work
> properly in ZfD7 (good MSI's, bad Zen) work perfectly. This is a huge
> plus.
>
> Connection to AD and NDS both work. DLU works. Remote control is better
> than ever before, leveraging VNC is excellent.
>
> Machine relationships finally work the way they should (this was
> Workstation Associations in ZfD). Run once finally really means 'run once'
> 😄
>
> Imaging is robust and working well.
>
> ZCM is really been a solid offering for us. We are even using it
> successfully on a new completely mobile workgroup, I had figured there
> would be more problems, but its solid.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> chevymannie wrote:
>> We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the
>> product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs,
>> but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The
>> engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes
>> they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this
>> product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it
>> worth the time we spend on it?
>>


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Is it worth it?

Personally I've spent most my time in Shops that have Domains/AD as well as
eDir going back to the release of NT 4.0
IDM is a good way to Synch Them.

I will admit that Policies with ZCM are slower to apply that ZDM/AD
But I would not say AD was faster than ZDM.

Depending on what your current Setup is, you can Configure NetWare boxes to
act as a Domain Controller so that you can add your PCs/Servers to it.
And the eDir account will act as a Domain account so no need to even Synch.

OES is also adding some type of "Domain Services" which will look and work
just like real AD. (I've been told, i have not used.)
I don't know the details, but it may not require synching either. The OES
forums could tell you more.



--
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Support Forums Volunteer Sysop

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

"Ryan K" <no_email@_nospam._com> wrote in message
news:aDs9l.722$pu.168@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> I'd be very interested to hear how you have this setup. Are you using IDM
> to sync information between AD and eDirectory?
>
> I hear that deploying user and workstation policies through AD is faster
> and just works better than with ZFD/ZCM. I think that it would sometimes
> be nice to have an AD environment to register workstations in, as some of
> our management apps are really designed around being in a "domain" rather
> than a workgroup.
>
> I know you can make any workstation with a Novell client a member of a
> domain. Applying user policies would mean that you need to be
> synchronizing your eDirectory users to AD before you could apply policies
> to users or containers.
>
> How do you have this working, exactly?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan
>
>
> "unsigned" <unsigned@digerati.us> wrote in message
> news:bSK8l.14221$wo4.2231@kovat.provo.novell.com...
>> So far I like the product. I've been using Zen since the 3.2 days, so I
>> have a reasonable set of expectations for the product. I've not been
>> amused with Novell's execution on other products for a while now, but
>> ZCM, starting with 10.1 has been perfectly usable. We do not deploy
>> windows GP via Zen, its just easier to manage directly via a domain.
>> Maybe thats why we don't see what others are.
>>
>> I will say, Application deployment has been great, MSI's that did not
>> work properly in ZfD7 (good MSI's, bad Zen) work perfectly. This is a
>> huge plus.
>>
>> Connection to AD and NDS both work. DLU works. Remote control is better
>> than ever before, leveraging VNC is excellent.
>>
>> Machine relationships finally work the way they should (this was
>> Workstation Associations in ZfD). Run once finally really means 'run
>> once' 😄
>>
>> Imaging is robust and working well.
>>
>> ZCM is really been a solid offering for us. We are even using it
>> successfully on a new completely mobile workgroup, I had figured there
>> would be more problems, but its solid.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> chevymannie wrote:
>>> We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the
>>> product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs,
>>> but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The
>>> engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes
>>> they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this
>>> product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it
>>> worth the time we spend on it?
>>>

>



0 Likes
Knowledge Partner Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Is it worth it?

Ryan K;1712122 wrote:
I'd be very interested to hear how you have this setup. Are you using IDM
to sync information between AD and eDirectory?

I hear that deploying user and workstation policies through AD is faster and
just works better than with ZFD/ZCM. I think that it would sometimes be
nice to have an AD environment to register workstations in, as some of our
management apps are really designed around being in a "domain" rather than a
workgroup.

I know you can make any workstation with a Novell client a member of a
domain. Applying user policies would mean that you need to be synchronizing
your eDirectory users to AD before you could apply policies to users or
containers.

How do you have this working, exactly?

Thanks!

-Ryan


"unsigned" <unsigned@digerati.us> wrote in message
news:bSK8l.14221$wo4.2231@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> So far I like the product. I've been using Zen since the 3.2 days, so I
> have a reasonable set of expectations for the product. I've not been
> amused with Novell's execution on other products for a while now, but ZCM,
> starting with 10.1 has been perfectly usable. We do not deploy windows GP
> via Zen, its just easier to manage directly via a domain. Maybe thats why
> we don't see what others are.
>
> I will say, Application deployment has been great, MSI's that did not work
> properly in ZfD7 (good MSI's, bad Zen) work perfectly. This is a huge
> plus.
>
> Connection to AD and NDS both work. DLU works. Remote control is better
> than ever before, leveraging VNC is excellent.
>
> Machine relationships finally work the way they should (this was
> Workstation Associations in ZfD). Run once finally really means 'run once'
> 😄
>
> Imaging is robust and working well.
>
> ZCM is really been a solid offering for us. We are even using it
> successfully on a new completely mobile workgroup, I had figured there
> would be more problems, but its solid.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> chevymannie wrote:
>> We recently purchased ZCM 10.1.1 and so far I'm on the fence about the
>> product. I understand that all software is going to have a few bugs,
>> but I'm constantly getting error messages and other problems. The
>> engineers at Novell seem like pretty knowledgeable guys but sometimes
>> they're no help either. So anyone out there who has purchased this
>> product and is running it in a pure window environment like me is it
>> worth the time we spend on it?
>>


The new OES2SP1 includes Domain Services for Windows, that simply means that you can have eDirectory look like AD to your workstations 🙂 I also think you can deploy Windows GP with it 🙂

Thomas
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