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JanMartin Outstanding Contributor.
Outstanding Contributor.

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Tough one, purging would lead to dodgy record keeping described above and not purging them would lead to storage problems that the limit is meant to resolve...

Organisations probably need to accept that the amount of data people are generating today vastly exceeds the data generated when their records keeping started - even with good retention policies in place you are probably only freeing up a tiny fraction of your storage every year - good time to move to the cloud where storage is dirt cheap and doesn't require you to jump through hoops with procurement 🙂

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Respected Contributor.. TheRealJerjef Respected Contributor..
Respected Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Hi David,

I wanted to let you know I implemented the PS script with much success in a test environmet, but I do wonder what lingering issues this would have overall on the stability of the system.

Thanks

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Respected Contributor.. madether Respected Contributor..
Respected Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Has anyone tried the script and has there been any issues with implementing this?
We are like most here and have many records with more than 100 revisions.

Futher to this, CM9.2 Patch 1 is meant to fix this, anyone been able to find it?

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JasonIMEX Outstanding Contributor.
Outstanding Contributor.

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Nice undocumented "enhancement" alright..  Certainly keep the testers on their toes

HP Records management suite specialists
www.imexwa.com.au
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JasonIMEX Outstanding Contributor.
Outstanding Contributor.

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Hi David

Look like this limit has been set to 1000 not in the latest 9.2 release #9629

This PS script provided does that need to be run client side or server side or both?

 

 

HP Records management suite specialists
www.imexwa.com.au
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NZ-TRIM-Experts Super Contributor.
Super Contributor.

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

Hi,  Revisions limit is at 1000.  You'll find a refrence to this in the Spec document under the Limitations section:  ".....child list and the record Revisions child list, where the total limit is 1000 items, but only 100 items can be applied in a single transaction."

Our testing with the base version showed Rev limt was 99 but the patch release allows up to 1000.

 

 

Chris

InfocentriK Helpdesk
InfocentriK Limited
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Contributor.. DavidBowen Contributor..
Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

We have an Access Database, held in CM with over 1800 revisions.  The owner is allowing us to purge revisions.  (All these documents were created in 9.1.1.1002 and have just the past weekend been upgraded to 9.2.0.9437.)

Finance have a document with over 350 revisions.  They believe that htey need these for 2 years (until the Auditros are finished).  We are moving batches of 75 or so (a month at a time) into new documents.  The moving has to be done by extracting the revisions to the desktop and then entering them onto the new document one by one.

Any faster method would be welcome!

We will also modify working practice in Finance to start a new document every month or every quarter to keep the revision number down.

The limit of 99 is a serious and real problem.

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Contributor.. DavidBowen Contributor..
Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2

I agree with a limit, and (with enough warning and work on users) prefer an Administrator-settable lower limit.  Unwanted revisions clog up our memory and present serious risks to organisations liable to FOI or GDPR.  There are better ways of working (using new sheets in Excel, using Versions every week or so, ...??) that avoid large numbers of revisions being necessary to be kept outside the drafting period.

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Frequent Contributor.. opensauce Frequent Contributor..
Frequent Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2 - a little more depth

I'm late to the party on this topic, having not been involved in client site upgrades for a while. Lately I've been bringing TRIM 7 sites up to CM9.2 (because most cannot use 9.3 with their integrated vendor solutions as yet), and across the board I find that Excel records are typically well above the threshold of 99 revisions. This may not be true for newer implementations, but starting back at TRIM7 or earlier, the use of TRIM to manage your Excel workbook has been in place for finance officers early on.

Sites I have worked with this year have consistently had workbook records with up to 5000 revisions present, and a reasonable number of these in use. Moreover, these are often linked from external sources, making it unattractive to "make a new version" in order to overcome the problem. Removing past revisions does not fix the problem as the issue appears to be with the revision number, rather than the number of revisions.

In my research on this issue I find that originally there was a limit, but the limit was 32767 revisions, being the upper limit of the small int field type.

https://softwaresupport.softwaregrp.com/doc/KM02503336

I also can see that at some point in time (circa RM8.1) some customers reported delays saving records where a large number of revisions is present.

https://softwaresupport.softwaregrp.com/doc/KM02751434

I suspect that this problem was addressed somewhat in isolation by introducing the arbitrary hard-limit we see today that David has discussed.

The issue is therefore yet to be resolved. The method for bypassing the hard limit comes with no warranty, and no explanation as to the possible side-effects. Those who have implemented it are yet to report back on any such side-effects. It is a workaround, and as such should be approached with some caution.

I for one think that customers should be offered a "System Option" for controlling the revision issue, and a "migration" tool where they want to continue with better performance, but require users to continue making revisions on the same record number. The migration tool could for example be similar to the new "version" function, but instead of moving the current revision to a new record, retain the current record, and hive off the past revisions to a new related record, and reduce the residual record revision count to 1.0 (with the process recorded in the Notes)... something like that.

 

Or

A well written procedural guideline for customers to follow BEFORE they hit the revision wall.

 

Thanks for reading 🙂

 

Micro Focus Expert
Micro Focus Expert

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2 - a little more depth

There is a CR in the system, but some serious architectural work is required to make it happen. To increase the likelihood of it happening you need to raise the severity on the issue. The way to raise the severity on the issue is to lodge one (or more) support requests with customer names attached.
If you speak to support quote CR # 65359.


My guess would be that this will slip beyond the next release without some pressure from one or more customers.

 


Blog | Samples | CM SDK Docs
**Any opinions expressed in this forum are my own personal opinion and should not be interpreted as an official statement on behalf of MicroFocus**
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Highlighted
Frequent Contributor.. opensauce Frequent Contributor..
Frequent Contributor..

Re: 99 Revision Limit in CM 9.2 - a little more depth

Hi David. Thanks for the quick response. I think at this stage the workaround powershell is the shortest path to getting customers running. What would be good to add to the discussion is: What is the correct method for reversing the change, and what implications are there ?

I assume that the same script modified so that:

$database.BypassBobChildListLimits = $false

Is all that is required to revert things, or does that variable need to be deleted?
In our own quick tests, we can see that this method is a front end to values in the database: Table TSTWRSYS, and in in our case the item PRP_1678 is set to 1, (or 0 with $false). Rather than CSI TRIM investigating after the fact, are you able to confirm whether the real change is simply one SQL on one table?
Will disabling it cause further disadvantage to those affected records (such as causing them to become inaccessible)?

Thanks again
Simon.
www.informotion.com.au
www.encompaas.cloud
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