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A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

Hi guys!

We have GroupWise 8.0.x running on a Novell Netware OES 6.5 server patched to SP8. This server also provides file and print services. About 80 Win XP Pro users all in.

This server hosts the single GroupWise domain database with one PO, the POA, MTA and GWIA NLM agents and the NDS database.

A second Netware 6.5 SP8 server hosts the Web Access agent.

A separate (small) SLES box supports Data Synchroniser.

It all sits there doing exactly what it says on the tin, day in, day out and no grief. Has done so for many years including moving up from earlier versions of GroupWise (4.1) and Netware (3.12) as their new versions became available.

Now we want the extra goodies which come with GroupWise 12 - especially better support for all the smart thingies users are bringing into work.

My best interpretation of all the Novell and forum literature related to GroupWise 12 is:

1. We have got to install either a Windows or SLES server, which can go into the existing tree and context (?).

2. We have to move the existing GroupWise domain database and post office onto this new server (by just copying it?).

3. We have got to replace all the existing NLM agents (POA, MTA, GWIA and WebAccess) and run them on the new server (or servers?).

4. The SLES based Data Synchroniser can still sit there continuing to do its own thing albeit probably with an upgrade.

Have we got it right and is it correct that we cannot have a halfway step with some bits of GroupWise 12 running under Netware and other bits under Windows Server/SLES? We do expect we can still retain the NDS master replica on the Netware server.

Any suggestion about best options to retain the system stability we are used to?

AB
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

On Mon, 13 May 2013 14:06:03 GMT, alandbond
<alandbond@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:

>
>Hi guys!
>
>We have GroupWise 8.0.x running on a Novell Netware OES 6.5 server
>patched to SP8. This server also provides file and print services. About
>80 Win XP Pro users all in.
>
>This server hosts the single GroupWise domain database with one PO, the
>POA, MTA and GWIA NLM agents and the NDS database.
>
>A second Netware 6.5 SP8 server hosts the Web Access agent.
>
>A separate (small) SLES box supports Data Synchroniser.
>
>It all sits there doing exactly what it says on the tin, day in, day
>out and no grief. Has done so for many years including moving up from
>earlier versions of GroupWise (4.1) and Netware (3.12) as their new
>versions became available.
>
>Now we want the extra goodies which come with GroupWise 12 - especially
>better support for all the smart thingies users are bringing into work.
>
>My best interpretation of all the Novell and forum literature related
>to GroupWise 12 is:
>
>1. We have got to install either a Windows or SLES server, which can go
>into the existing tree and context (?).


Three options: Windows, SLES, or OES 11. I have 70 users and I am
running the MTA, POA, GWIA, and Web Access (and GWAVA) all on an OES
11 server. Runs great.

>2. We have to move the existing GroupWise domain database and post
>office onto this new server (by just copying it?).


Essentially. I would recommend getting Danita's GW 2012 Upgrade Guide
for Netware. www.caledonia.net I used it to migrate from GW8 on
Netware to 2012 on OES. Very helpful!

>3. We have got to replace all the existing NLM agents (POA, MTA, GWIA
>and WebAccess) and run them on the new server (or servers?).


Yes.

>4. The SLES based Data Synchroniser can still sit there continuing to
>do its own thing albeit probably with an upgrade.


I would just make sure it is running the latest Data Sync version on
SLES 11 SP2.

>Have we got it right and is it correct that we cannot have a halfway
>step with some bits of GroupWise 12 running under Netware and other bits
>under Windows Server/SLES? We do expect we can still retain the NDS
>master replica on the Netware server.


You could move the MTA, POA, and GWIA to your new mail server in one
step. WebAccess could be installed on that server at the same time or
at a later date. I left my old Netware based WebAccess in place for a
couple of months until I was ready to move it to my new OES mail
server.

>Any suggestion about best options to retain the system stability we are
>used to?


I'm finding OES 11 runs as smoothly as my old Netware servers did. I
did have a few times where my POA would go dead - so I setup GW High
Availability on my mail server and that solved that issue.

Regards,
Ken
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12


> 1. We have got to install either a Windows or SLES server, which can go into
> the existing tree and context (?).


Correct - or OES on top of SLES.

> 2. We have to move the existing GroupWise domain database and post office onto
> this new server (by just copying it?).


Yes - using dbcopy -m is the preferred method.

> 3. We have got to replace all the existing NLM agents (POA, MTA, GWIA and
> WebAccess) and run them on the new server (or servers?).


Correct - except there is no WebAccess agent for GW 2012 - it's just the web
server component.

> 4. The SLES based Data Synchroniser can still sit there continuing to do its
> own thing albeit probably with an upgrade.


Yes - it technically would work even without an upgrade. You'll just possibly
have to edit it for LDAP server and GW server IP locations assuming those
change.

> Have we got it right and is it correct that we cannot have a halfway step with
> some bits of GroupWise 12 running under Netware and other bits under Windows
> Server/SLES? We do expect we can still retain the NDS master replica on the
> Netware server.


No - you can keep WebAccess and GWIA for example on NetWare. But they would be
on version 8. If you want version 2012 all around, then it cannot be run on
NetWare.


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Danita
Novell Knowledge Partner
Upgrading to GW 2012?
http://bit.ly/gw2012netware
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

Hi Danita and Ken

Many thanks for your most helpful responses and suggestions.

I have downloaded Danita's book on moving GroupWise and expect this to answer most follow up questions which I might have.

It looks like the most sensible way to proceed from your responses would be to replace/upgrade the existing Novell Netware 6.5 SP8 server to a 64 bit OES11/SLES11 server and move everything from Netware (including all the existing GroupWise 8 elements other than Webaccess) to OES11/SLES11 and then upgrade Groupwise 8 to Groupwise 12.

Is OES11/SLES memory hungry in this configuration ie supporting both file and print and Groupwise 12? I remember when we ran it all (Netware and Groupwise) in 640k and going up to 2Mb memory really was the biz!

One clarification I would appreciate relates to the suggestion that we can run Groupwise 12 EITHER under OES11 OR SLES (forget Windows Server). I had thought that OES11 was the Novell server software which sits on top of a SLES11 kernel. I do not understand the option of running GroupWise 12 under SLES itself as opposed to running it under OES11 sitting on SLES11. What is the critical difference here and why would we chose one option over the other?

AB
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:46:02 GMT, alandbond
<alandbond@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:

>
>Hi Danita and Ken
>
>Many thanks for your most helpful responses and suggestions.
>
>I have downloaded Danita's book on moving GroupWise and expect this to
>answer most follow up questions which I might have.
>
>It looks like the most sensible way to proceed from your responses
>would be to replace/upgrade the existing Novell Netware 6.5 SP8 server
>to a 64 bit OES11/SLES11 server and move everything from Netware
>(including all the existing GroupWise 8 elements other than Webaccess)
>to OES11/SLES11 and then upgrade Groupwise 8 to Groupwise 12.
>
>Is OES11/SLES memory hungry in this configuration ie supporting both
>file and print and Groupwise 12? I remember when we ran it all (Netware
>and Groupwise) in 640k and going up to 2Mb memory really was the biz!
>
>One clarification I would appreciate relates to the suggestion that we
>can run Groupwise 12 EITHER under OES11 OR SLES (forget Windows Server).
>I had thought that OES11 was the Novell server software which sits on
>top of a SLES11 kernel. I do not understand the option of running
>GroupWise 12 under SLES itself as opposed to running it under OES11
>sitting on SLES11. What is the critical difference here and why would we
>chose one option over the other?


AB,

I have 70 users and I setup two OES 11 servers. One for file/print,
dns, dhcp, etc and one for GroupWise. This made more sense for me
from a disk space and management standpoint. I have 12 GB in each
server - was able to get that for a good price. Both servers are
running fine - haven't checked how much memory they are actually
using. I'm running GroupWise on OES in part because I wanted to use
the NSS file system.

If you are going to do everything on one server and you want it to be
similar to your current Netware server, then you will want to use OES.
That will give you the NSS file system and your Windows PCs with the
Novell client will be able to access it the same as before. And you
can use the migration wizard to move everything over to the new
server. GroupWise can run on SLES or OES/SLES. There are other
differences beside the NSS file system, but I don't remember them at
the moment, but I'm sure Danita can list them. She knows a whole lot
more about running GroupWise than I do. 🙂

Regards,
Ken
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

Ken

Once again a very helpful and lucid response from you so many thanks!

It is almost certainly going to be OES/SLES for us based on what you describe as your experience.

I like the concept of it all looking like (well at least sort of) the Netware system we are familiar with and especially the use of NSS and the Migration Wizard to move things across. The ability to use existing workstations (XP Pro) albeit with a client software version upgrade is also attractive.

Will now settle down and read Danita's guide to how to do it.

Again, many thanks.

Alan
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:56:03 GMT, alandbond
<alandbond@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:

>
>Ken
>
>Once again a very helpful and lucid response from you so many thanks!
>
>It is almost certainly going to be OES/SLES for us based on what you
>describe as your experience.
>
>I like the concept of it all looking like (well at least sort of) the
>Netware system we are familiar with and especially the use of NSS and
>the Migration Wizard to move things across. The ability to use existing
>workstations (XP Pro) albeit with a client software version upgrade is
>also attractive.
>
>Will now settle down and read Danita's guide to how to do it.


Alan,

I used the dbcopy method described in Danita's book to move GroupWise
and the Migration Wizard for most everything else.

From the user's standpoint, they don't have a clue that the backend is
now Linux instead of Netware. Everything seems the same to them. I
just had to get myself up to speed on Linux...but with OES, a lot of
things stay the same...such as the DNSDHCP console, nssmu, etc.

Regards,
Ken
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

KeN Etter wrote:

> From the user's standpoint, they don't have a clue that the backend is now
> Linux instead of Netware. Everything seems the same to them.


If you are using OES for file/print, this is the most crucial item. If it's a
GW only server, then the biggest issue is administration, since users really
don't need access. In the past, getting SAMBA set up on SLES in order to get
admins to attach via ConsoleOne on Windows was the biggest annoyance to a "SLES
only" installation. But now that SLES11 SP2 has RDP access (which most admins
have handy when VNC isn't available), it's almost as easy to make the SLES
server simply accessible via RDP and have admins access it to run ConsoleOne.
But if you have access to OES licenses (a little more expensive of course), then
OES for GroupWise simplifies the look and feel for logging in, etc.

--
Danita
Novell Knowledge Partner
Do you have Willem Bagchus' GW 2012 Admin Guide?
http://www.facebook.com/caledonia.net
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

Dear Danita and Ken

Thanks to you both for your additional comments and clarifications. I am learning by the minute but am now all fired up to make the long overdue move from Netware to OES and then onto GroupWise 12 from GroupWise 8.

An additional thank you to Danita for quickly sorting out the issue I had with the book download. It was much appreciated.

Best regards

Alan
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

No problem Alan - and if you run into any issues that need clarification, please feel free to post them!
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

Hello again Danita

Have been concentrating on getting my mind around the 'moving to SLES/OES from Netware' part of the process of moving to Groupwise 12. Have found your book/paper extremely helpful in all respects and the Linux OES Install Forum also very helpful.

Much of the latter (Linux OES Install Forum) concentrated on the merits/problems of my using EVMS/NSS with SLES 10 SP4/OES2 SP3, which, for my discardable test/learning 32 bit based server, was not too much of an issue for me but here is the question.

You came down in favour of a reduced function NSS for Groupwise 12 systems, with Ext 3 as close runner up in your paper.

When I come to set up the live system based upon a 64 bit server using SLES11/OES11, I understand from other postings that I should anticipate EVMS being phased out of SLES11/OES11 software and that seems to mean no NSS file structure on Linux will be possible in future.

Have I got this right and if so, I assume GroupWise 12 should now be set up on the EXT3 file structure from the outset? It is probably worth mentioning that the GroupWise system will be running on a server also providing file and print services etc.

Alan
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Re: A really basic question on upgrading GroupWise 12

alandbond wrote:

> When I come to set up the live system based upon a 64 bit server using
> SLES11/OES11, I understand from other postings that I should anticipate EVMS
> being phased out of SLES11/OES11 software and that seems to mean no NSS file
> structure on Linux will be possible in future.


Novell has its own NVMS system that replaces EVMS. NSS is not going anywhere!

--
Danita
Novell Knowledge Partner
Do you have Willem Bagchus' GW 2012 Admin Guide?
http://www.facebook.com/caledonia.net
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