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izgoblin Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

Hello all,

Just looking for some basic feedback from any BES users out there. We are currently running Groupwise 8.0.2 build 91619 on SLES 10 which was provided to us before the release of 8.0.2HP1 in order to fix crashing issues with the POA.

Has anyone seen positive results from following the actions in this TID?

No mails from GroupWise mailbox get synced to a mobile device after applying GW802 HP1 build.

With Blackberry Enterprise Server 4.1 SP7 or 5.01, we are experiencing two serious issues:

1) A known issue causing up to a 15-minute delay in email delivery (see KB25042-BlackBerry smartphone users experience mail delivery and data synchronization delay after an upgrade to Novell GroupWise 8.0.2 HP1 )

2) Edits to Contact/Address book entries not being successfully sync'd back to Groupwise and are then being "lost". This seems to only occur in certain conditions that I have not yet been able to confirm, but I have mostly seen it happen when modifying the notes or zip code of a user's entry.

My reason for asking is this -- due to a recent decision not to perform any further upgrades to Groupwise (as a result of several said upgrades resulting in GWIA and POA crashes), I need to be sure that moving from build 91619 to HP1 is justifiable.

I ran the new gwcheck in the aforementioned TID on our build and it didn't make a difference, so I'm wondering if it *will* make a difference if I move to HP1. And sadly, we're a small shop, so I don't have the hardware to duplicate my POA to test this before implementing in production.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has had the problems I mention above and resolved them, or if you still have the problems and have been unable to resolve them on the versions I have mentioned.

Thanks!
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

DO NOT go to BES 5.x It's horrible. Especially if you have anything GW 8.0.1 HP1 or later.

BES 5.x is NOT supported with GW 8.0.2.x (8.0.2 or anything higher). Yet.

Trust, me, we're at 8.0.2 HP1 for various OTHER fixes/security patches and BES 5.0.1 (made the mistake of upgrading from 4.16 to 5.0.1) and it's been atrocious. RIM has been terrible to deal with and just doesn't seem to care or find any urgency. I think we're going on 2 months now of emails not syncing, address books not syncing, it duplicates entries inside of address books, etc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

I'm dealing with the contact sync issue which perhaps is slightly different
as BES users seem to lost random contacts on their device.

I'm not seeing the no email sync issue however I ran the special gwcheck
which directed at the Mobility problem which had the same cause, the GW POA.

Over all BES 5 has been running good for me, the contact sync was always a
problem with 4.1 so with 5, it's nothing new to me.



"izgoblin" <izgoblin@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:izgoblin.4nij83@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> Hello all,
>
> Just looking for some basic feedback from any BES users out there. We
> are currently running Groupwise 8.0.2 build 91619 on SLES 10 which was
> provided to us before the release of 8.0.2HP1 in order to fix crashing
> issues with the POA.
>
> Has anyone seen positive results from following the actions in this
> TID?
>
> 'No mails from GroupWise mailbox get synced to a mobile device after
> applying GW802 HP1 build.'
> (http://www.novell.com/support/dynamickc.do?cmd=show&forward=nonthreadedKC&docType=kc&externalId=7007206&sliceId=1)
>
> With Blackberry Enterprise Server 4.1 SP7 or 5.01, we are experiencing
> two serious issues:
>
> 1) A known issue causing up to a 15-minute delay in email delivery
> (see 'KB25042-BlackBerry smartphone users experience mail delivery and
> data synchronization delay after an upgrade to Novell GroupWise 8.0.2
> HP1'
> (http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/search.do?cmd=displayKC&docType=kc&externalId=KB25042)
> )
>
> 2) Edits to Contact/Address book entries not being successfully sync'd
> back to Groupwise and are then being "lost". This seems to only occur
> in certain conditions that I have not yet been able to confirm, but I
> have mostly seen it happen when modifying the notes or zip code of a
> user's entry.
>
> My reason for asking is this -- due to a recent decision not to perform
> any further upgrades to Groupwise (as a result of several said upgrades
> resulting in GWIA and POA crashes), I need to be sure that moving from
> build 91619 to HP1 is justifiable.
>
> I ran the new gwcheck in the aforementioned TID on our build and it
> didn't make a difference, so I'm wondering if it *will* make a
> difference if I move to HP1. And sadly, we're a small shop, so I
> don't have the hardware to duplicate my POA to test this before
> implementing in production.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has had the problems I
> mention above and resolved them, or if you still have the problems and
> have been unable to resolve them on the versions I have mentioned.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> izgoblin
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> izgoblin's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=2743
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922
>



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

This issue of "support" is that GW BES 5 is not certified with GW SP2 or
higher, you mentioned "yet" and as little bird told me, RIM has the gold
release of SP2 HP2 and all signs indicate that in the next few weeks, all
versions of GW 8 will be "certified".

RIM will not deny you support if you are running the latest GW version, in
fact the GW8 SP2 HP1 has numerous fixes esp in SOAP that are all most
required if you are running GW BES 5.

Not to be harsh to Novell but the majority of BES 5 issues boil down to GW
POA's due to long longing defects on the Novell side and not to mention that
Novell has taken a few shortcuts in implementing the SOAP protocol on the
POA.

I will agree that RIM is not responding well to support incidents but at
least when you call them, you get to speak to English speaking support
staff.


"kjhurni" <kjhurni@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:kjhurni.4nisy0@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> DO NOT go to BES 5.x It's horrible. Especially if you have anything GW
> 8.0.1 HP1 or later.
>
> BES 5.x is NOT supported with GW 8.0.2.x (8.0.2 or anything higher).
> Yet.
>
> Trust, me, we're at 8.0.2 HP1 for various OTHER fixes/security patches
> and BES 5.0.1 (made the mistake of upgrading from 4.16 to 5.0.1) and
> it's been atrocious. RIM has been terrible to deal with and just
> doesn't seem to care or find any urgency. I think we're going on 2
> months now of emails not syncing, address books not syncing, it
> duplicates entries inside of address books, etc.
>
>
> --
> The opinions expressed are my own.
> Check out my OES2 Guides:
> Installing OES2 SP2:
> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
> Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
> GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> kjhurni's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=734
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922
>



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

On 1/13/2011 1:30 PM, Michael Rae wrote:
> This issue of "support" is that GW BES 5 is not certified with GW SP2 or
> higher, you mentioned "yet" and as little bird told me, RIM has the gold
> release of SP2 HP2 and all signs indicate that in the next few weeks, all
> versions of GW 8 will be "certified".
>
> RIM will not deny you support if you are running the latest GW version, in
> fact the GW8 SP2 HP1 has numerous fixes esp in SOAP that are all most
> required if you are running GW BES 5.



hmm they've told me there is absolutely no support beyond 8.01hp2...
until 8.0.2 hp2
>
> Not to be harsh to Novell but the majority of BES 5 issues boil down to GW
> POA's due to long longing defects on the Novell side and not to mention that
> Novell has taken a few shortcuts in implementing the SOAP protocol on the
> POA.


I have heard the exact inverse, but then you can guess my sources are
biased in the opposite direction 🙂 Doesn't really matter, both sides
agree 8.02HP2 will be the way to go.
>
> I will agree that RIM is not responding well to support incidents but at
> least when you call them, you get to speak to English speaking support
> staff.
>
>
> "kjhurni"<kjhurni@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
> news:kjhurni.4nisy0@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>>
>> DO NOT go to BES 5.x It's horrible. Especially if you have anything GW
>> 8.0.1 HP1 or later.
>>
>> BES 5.x is NOT supported with GW 8.0.2.x (8.0.2 or anything higher).
>> Yet.
>>
>> Trust, me, we're at 8.0.2 HP1 for various OTHER fixes/security patches
>> and BES 5.0.1 (made the mistake of upgrading from 4.16 to 5.0.1) and
>> it's been atrocious. RIM has been terrible to deal with and just
>> doesn't seem to care or find any urgency. I think we're going on 2
>> months now of emails not syncing, address books not syncing, it
>> duplicates entries inside of address books, etc.
>>
>>
>> --
>> The opinions expressed are my own.
>> Check out my OES2 Guides:
>> Installing OES2 SP2:
>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
>> Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
>> GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> kjhurni's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=734
>> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922
>>

>
>


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izgoblin Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

Thank you all for that helpful feedback. We migrated a few test users from our production BES 4.16 server since RIM has stopped supporting 4.16 entirely. But it sounds like I better just deal with the problems for now until GW 8.0.2 HP2 is out and BES is known to support it.

I just wonder how the larger sites are getting on. We have only 33 BES users, and most of them haven't even noticed the contact sync issue. However, I have one guy who LIVES on his Blackberry and maintains his contact list constantly with notes and such, and he has been furious over the lost data. I wish I had a fix for him, but it sounds like we're just going to have to live with it longer.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

Yes, the source of "bugs" depend who you listening to. I have more contact
with RIM so I'm hearing more of their side of the story yet I have a couple
voices on the Novell engineering side who have told me similer story that
support RIM's side. If you listen to both Novell and RIM sales department,
they both tell you that BES 5 for GW is just fine! 🙂

Do you have a support contract with RIM?


"Michael Bell" <mikebell@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:EUKXo.12279$325.877@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> On 1/13/2011 1:30 PM, Michael Rae wrote:
>> This issue of "support" is that GW BES 5 is not certified with GW SP2 or
>> higher, you mentioned "yet" and as little bird told me, RIM has the gold
>> release of SP2 HP2 and all signs indicate that in the next few weeks, all
>> versions of GW 8 will be "certified".
>>
>> RIM will not deny you support if you are running the latest GW version,
>> in
>> fact the GW8 SP2 HP1 has numerous fixes esp in SOAP that are all most
>> required if you are running GW BES 5.

>
>
> hmm they've told me there is absolutely no support beyond 8.01hp2... until
> 8.0.2 hp2
>>
>> Not to be harsh to Novell but the majority of BES 5 issues boil down to
>> GW
>> POA's due to long longing defects on the Novell side and not to mention
>> that
>> Novell has taken a few shortcuts in implementing the SOAP protocol on the
>> POA.

>
> I have heard the exact inverse, but then you can guess my sources are
> biased in the opposite direction 🙂 Doesn't really matter, both sides
> agree 8.02HP2 will be the way to go.
>>
>> I will agree that RIM is not responding well to support incidents but at
>> least when you call them, you get to speak to English speaking support
>> staff.
>>
>>
>> "kjhurni"<kjhurni@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjhurni.4nisy0@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>>>
>>> DO NOT go to BES 5.x It's horrible. Especially if you have anything GW
>>> 8.0.1 HP1 or later.
>>>
>>> BES 5.x is NOT supported with GW 8.0.2.x (8.0.2 or anything higher).
>>> Yet.
>>>
>>> Trust, me, we're at 8.0.2 HP1 for various OTHER fixes/security patches
>>> and BES 5.0.1 (made the mistake of upgrading from 4.16 to 5.0.1) and
>>> it's been atrocious. RIM has been terrible to deal with and just
>>> doesn't seem to care or find any urgency. I think we're going on 2
>>> months now of emails not syncing, address books not syncing, it
>>> duplicates entries inside of address books, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The opinions expressed are my own.
>>> Check out my OES2 Guides:
>>> Installing OES2 SP2:
>>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
>>> Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
>>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
>>> GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
>>> http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> kjhurni's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=734
>>> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922
>>>

>>
>>

>



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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

Yes, we have support with both RIM And Novell. Novell support, has been, by far, superior to RIM.

We have spent TWO MONTHS with RIM stating that "development is aware" of this particular bug with their code. Well guess what?
Today, we finally got to talk to the developer. He says he's NEVER HEARD of that error until today.

Of course, this coming from RIM who said first:
a) GroupWise 8.0.2 is supported
then
b) It's not
then
c) Oh, the error you're getting is because you're syncing the Frequent Contacts address book
d) Then, "oh, I guess it's not that). It must be a bug in GroupWise, so you need to apply 8.0.2 HP1 to fix the defect (even though the error we're getting doesn't even match)
e) We do that and then RIM comes back and says, "Oh, we didn't really know if that was the problem, but now that you're on 8.0.2 HP1 we won't support you).

Then we get Novell involved.

After many weeks of conf. calls it's apparent RIM has no idea what they are doing. They tell us to get them a SOAP log, but then their OWN SOAP collector tool fails to get the log.

Then it's:
Okay, we know it's not a Novell defect at this point, it's two known bugs with BES 5.0.1 MR-1 should fix both. Turns out it fixes neither. (again, mind you they are telling us every day on our conf. calls that "development is aware of both bugs").

Now here we sit and find out they've lied yet again the whole time.
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ahidalgo1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

We are running BES 5.0.1 MR1 as well as a newer build of 8.0.2 and are having a couple of issues.

1) Some users will not activate and overall activation seems very slow. We can stick them back in BES 4.1.7 and they activate fine.
2) The transporter tools does not migrate calendars on users who have OS 4.x on their devices. OS 5x seems ok.

The good news is that calendar deletes in the GW client now delete correctly on BB devices, an issue we had wit 4.1.7 and 4.1.6.

Al



On 1/14/2011 at 6:06 AM, izgoblin<izgoblin@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:


Thank you all for that helpful feedback. We migrated a few test users
from our production BES 4.16 server since RIM has stopped supporting
4.16 entirely. But it sounds like I better just deal with the problems
for now until GW 8.0.2 HP2 is out and BES is known to support it.

I just wonder how the larger sites are getting on. We have only 33
BES users, and most of them haven't even noticed the contact sync issue.
However, I have one guy who LIVES on his Blackberry and maintains his
contact list constantly with notes and such, and he has been furious
over the lost data. I wish I had a fix for him, but it sounds like
we're just going to have to live with it longer.


--
izgoblin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
izgoblin's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=2743
View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922

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izgoblin Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

Has anyone here already installed 8.02 HP2 in production with BES 5.01 MR1? Because of various problems in the past with Groupwise and BB, my manager is really set against touching Groupwise now that we have a stable install, but I really want to make a case for this if it resolves the Blackberry problems. Any word if this hot patch really is going to solve the ongoing syncing issues?
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedback?

We have one Blackberry that I know about that is having the synching issue. This may be an issue with old OS on Blackberry.
My environment:
NetWare 6.5SP8 running as Vm's on ESX4.1 single processor.
GW8.0.2 hp2
BES 5.0.1 MR1 running on Window 2008 sp2 32 bit vm. (Originally ran on Win2k8 R2 could not open attachments or view html email so went 32 bit and this fixed that issue.)
50 blackberries split between 3 post offices.

Since completing migration we have had an issue with high CPU utilization on both email server, one with server CPU running at 100% about 95 % of the time, the other about 5% of the time. The problem has been narrow to a SOAP issues which appear to be common error in the forums with BES and GW8 and SOAP.

It was suggested by RIM support to upgrade to hp1 and later hp2 but neither has fixed the issue. Have open case with both Novell and Rim.

If you are running on NetWare you can upgrade to the new code by installingto a new folder, change your load scripts in the autoexec.ncf. If there is a problem revert back to original GW8 load script.




"No good deed goes unpunished."
>>> On 2/9/2011 at 10:36 AM, izgoblin<izgoblin@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:



Has anyone here already installed 8.02 HP2 in production with BES 5.01
MR1? Because of various problems in the past with Groupwise and BB, my
manager is really set against touching Groupwise now that we have a
stable install, but I really want to make a case for this if it resolves
the Blackberry problems. Any word if this hot patch really is going to
solve the ongoing syncing issues?


--
izgoblin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
izgoblin's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=2743
View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=429922
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izgoblin Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

Well, in the event that anyone else out there is about to go to BES 5.01 MR1 with Groupwise 8.0.2 HP2, let me say here that at least for us, this combination is still a mess. Maybe not quite the mess it was with BES 4.1x, I dunno, but a mess indeed.

Granted, we successfully migrated over 5 users before moving over our most important user, but of course he had to be the one with troubles. Once we moved him from the BES 4.17 server over to 5.01, most entries in his address book were duplicated in Groupwise and tripled on his Blackberry. He also reports losing many calendar entries on his Blackberry and possibly some in Groupwise as well. Of course he also has to be our most remote user, so getting his Blackberry for a resync using Desktop Manager as BES support suggests is not as easy as one would hope.

Needless to say, I'm less than pleased.

Two more minor issues we have replicated on other accounts are as follows:

1) Entries created for more than a year in advance on Groupwise will not sync to the Blackberry. The workaround is to create these events on the Blackberry instead for now. This is apparently a known issue according to BES support.

2) If you use Memopad and edit an existing note on the BB, you may lose your most recent updates to that note on both GW and BB. I haven't figured out exactly what circumstances cause it, but it is reproducible.

The current theory around here is that anyone who is relying on Blackberry syncing with Groupwise at this point must be truly miserable. We most certainly are. At this point we're looking into whether the Novell Data Synchronizer does any better and may just recommend that our users abandon their Blackberries. My confidence level is not too high that this app will be our savior, however.
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

We saw the same thing with duplicated address book entries

Did you, by any chance, use the Transporter tool? We determined that's what messed up our migration.

Apparently the transporter mucks up the database entries, thus causing the duplicates, etc.

We "Fixed" those users by:
a) Removing them from the BES server entirely
b) Fixing their GW address manually by exporting the book, emptying it, and re-importing the book. There's an option to not import the duplicates (or merge them)
c) THEN we wiped (that's what we call it) their Blackberry--this requires access to the handheld device.
d) THEN, added them BACK onto the BES server

Once that was done, it seems to fix "most" problems, but we still have users that are randomly not getting certain things and RIM support is useless.
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izgoblin Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

kjhurni;2084008 wrote:
We saw the same thing with duplicated address book entries

Did you, by any chance, use the Transporter tool? We determined that's what messed up our migration.


Thanks for your helpful post! Yes, we did use the Transporter tool. Of course it worked great for our test users - like me - who it wouldn't matter a darn if things went wrong, but it really mucked things up for our heaviest user.

We will look to do what you suggest, although it is discouraging that it seems you're also experiencing limited reliability with the Groupwise/BES combo. Thanks much for your feedback.
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: BES 5.01 with various Groupwise 8.0.2 releases - feedbac

You're welcome. Ironically WE had to find this out because RIM is so incompetent they couldn't figure this out themselves. We were able to duplicate the problem "at will" using every version of the transporter they told us to.

Only took about 3-4 months of "working" with RIM to figure this out. VERY frustrating.
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