Highlighted
Regular Contributor.
Regular Contributor.
220 views

Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

I have a major problem of understanding document sharing with GW 2014 R2.  I took over responsibilities on an older GW Server (while having not that much of an idea about GW)  and need to delete some users due to licensing. 

This is the issue I face, somewhat simplified. The environment has grown, evolved, mutated over many years.:

  • User Pete has shared Folder ABC to User Sam (read,write,delete).
  • Sam now see's all documents (i.e. P1.doc, P2.xls) in folder ABC, can open, change, delete all of them. 
  • Sam thinks it's a good idea to add own documents into folder ABC and adds himself S3.doc and S4.xls.
  • Now Pete see's those new files and is happy to change, edit, whatever.

What I see is that Sam stays the owner of S3.doc and S4.xls. The documents themselves are not shared. They only happen to be in the shared ABS folder. 

Now the big question/issue. 

Sam leaves the company. The admin (me) checks if there are shared folders and finds none. Therefore the account is being deleted...

The result: S3.doc and S4.xls disappear from ABC folder. 

Pete is perplexed (me too), as he thinks that all documents in his shared folder are his to keep. 

What is wrong here?

It seems to me (and forgive me if I am wrong.. in this case, please educate me) that the expectations are wrong, and there is no simple way to explain the little differences. When there is a shared folder (ABC owned by Pete) and a document is added to it by Sam, it cannot be that if Sam's account is deleted, all those documents of him are deleted from the shared folder ABC as well. 

The mechanisms of ownership and takeover seems to work only on folder level. Correct? 

But then, how do I prevent that people put all their documents into a folder they do not own? Because if they do, there is a danger that documents will be lost if the user is deleted. 

 

Actually, I do have 2 users I need to delete. Those two users have not shared own folders, but only used the "company owned shares" (actually the CEO shared her folders, almost folder by folder to all users, this is a small company). That is, all users put their documents into that big complex folder structure. What makes it worse, apparently each receiver of a share can rename the folder to her/his liking and attach it anywhere in their folder structure. 

When I now delete those two users, their documents disappear from many different folders.

 

I do not want to loose all those documents. What can I do to prevent data loss?

The only "solution" I found so far is to not delete those users. But is that really a "solution"?

Please help, this drives me crazy.

 

Another example: User Judy has left the company years ago. The account became inactive (still with a license), but her documents still remained in many shared folders. Yet, when Judy left the company, she decided to delete all her folders. The documents were not deleted and can be found in her Authored Documents folder. And, as I said, also stayed in the shared folders of the other users. Why and how exactly Judy deleted those folders is unknown. 

When I now deleted Judy, GW told me that shared folder ownership can be taken over during a time I can set. Great, I think, and even if I did not see those shared folders I chose that option. Everybody having a shared folder from Judy now got many emails with requests to take over ownership of a certain folder. Yet, most of that messages are just emails!

Except for a few, the content says something about taking over folder "xyz". But "xyz" cannot be found everywhere. Not in Judy's account and not in any other account of the other users. 

For the few which actually start a take ownership process (those have a folder-like symbol), the take over "seems" to work, but at the end, there is no new folder. Whatever I would name the taken over folder (default is "folder", so it does not even take over the original name), that "new" folder is nowhere to be found. 

 

As you see, I am totally at a loss. 

Please help me understand and prevent me to loose more data.

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Labels (1)
0 Likes
6 Replies
Highlighted
Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Hi Dan,

as I know there are not many customers using the powerful GroupWise document management system in these days. In the early days of GroupWise 7 Novell recommended to move away of DMS because support will stop and that there will be no more development for DMS in future releases. However it still exists and works (although lost some of its features).

Back to your questions. I did not check the documentation now but maybe you have to step back to recent GroupWise documentations to get more input for DMS.

DMS is a product within a product running its own security system. So you can access foreign documents without shared folders. On the other side documents in a shared folder does not mean that you can automatically access - it depends on document rights.

If a owner of a document has been deleted then this document is orphaned and you have to run a gwcheck to reassign a new owner.

diethmar_0-1578378324777.png

A librarian (user with supervisor rights for a library) can do much more with "mass document operations".

But all I mention is part of the GroupWise documentation. I do not want write down the whole paper 😉

The only thing you have to consider: DMS is an application within the GroupWise application. Therefore you have to take care of two worlds!

Diethmar

Diethmar Rimser
If you like my idea or solution, please show it and click i.e. on "Like"!
Highlighted
Regular Contributor.
Regular Contributor.

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Thanks for your answer @Rimser ,

I've read through the documentation and did some experiments with the Library Maintenance tool and the librarian rights.

I seem not to grasp some of the concepts and I even think there might be a bug and I will probably open a support call.

For example, I cannot find a solution for the case of a user B saving his documents in a shared folder from user A. Those documents will be removed from the shared folder as soon as I delete user B. Looking at the shared documents before deletion, I see that they are still owned by user B. Transfering ownership of single documents seem not to work. Moving them to another folder and share them before giving ownership would change the overall folder structure, not to say that we talk about thousands of documents distributed in hundreds of folders. 

Assign the ownership of the orphaned documents after deletion is creating a lot of hassle, especially if it's not done immediately after each deletion. In my case, the reassignment has never been done and the database has never been cleaned from orphaned documents before. If I do that now, it would assign ALL documents floating around from different deleted users to the new owner. And, it would put them into one folder. So again, folder structure lost.

I was told how great the DMS features of GroupWise are, but now that I am over my ears in issues, I barely can see any greatness here. 😞

 

Daniel

 

 

0 Likes
Highlighted
Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Hi Dan,

a good idea to ask support. It easier to get help and support immediate - better than to discuss it here. I think you need someone grey haired to get help because young support people to not have experience with DMS :-)))

 

Although you're disappointed now DMS is a strong feature - unfortunately not any more in GroupWise. If you need version control of documents, a strong search ability and much more then you have to proceed with Vibe.

Diethmar

Diethmar Rimser
If you like my idea or solution, please show it and click i.e. on "Like"!
Highlighted
Regular Contributor.
Regular Contributor.

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Dear Daniel

There are some basic principles in terms of document management that you are missing.  The creator is by default also the author of a document.  This is the same for almost every document management system I have worked with.

GroupWise added the ability to share a document inside a shared folder.  Once that user that did the sharing is removed from the system, that document becomes orphaned UNLESS you have included in your employee separation process the activity to re-assign the document to a new author/owner, otherwise, that document will no longer provide access to the participants of the shared folder as the owner no longer exists.

You also need to understand the shared folder is a GroupWise Client representation of mailbox folders.  When you remove a user from the system, whatever that user has shared may become invalid.  The GroupWise client DOES NOT represent what is in the GroupWise DMS Library.  It only allows users to post links to DMS documents inside folders.  That link is linked to the user posting the link.

There is NOTHING wrong with the functionality.  In fact, it does exactly what it is supposed to do and it is surely not a bug.

Part of your end-user system administration procedures will be to re-assign the ownership.  If that is not done, it is your internal processes that are lacking a very basic process.  This is the same for other document management systems as well. 

If the original owner did assign explicit rights to a document for other users, or user roles, then this will not be an issue.

We have been supporting GroupWise DMS since GroupWise 5 in the mid-'90s and this has never ever been an issue when the correct procedures are being followed.  GroupWise DMS is still a very power DMS solution but the lack of Novell/Attachmate and now Micro Focus on what Document Management actually means we have not seen the web accessibility to GroupWise DMS change in 20 years.

We now recommend that users rather opt for Micro Focus Vibe.  We also have a tool to migrate your GroupWise DMS into Vibe with all the related metadata.

Regards

Cobus

 

________________
Cobus Burgers
(Been around for many years)
Tags (1)
Highlighted
Regular Contributor.
Regular Contributor.

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Hi Daniel,

I think the largest DMS systems I have heard of were based in South Africa where Cobus is waving Novell's flag for many years. So he has really a lot of experience!

Diethmar

(Don't be surprised - I will change my account from Diethmar to Rimser)

0 Likes
Regular Contributor.
Regular Contributor.

Re: Document sharing, ownership and account deletions... deleted documents I do not want deleted

Dear Daniel

I forgot to mention that merely deleting a user's account does not delete the documents the user has created on the DMS libraries.

Once you have reassigned the ownership, these documents will become accessible to the new owners, but deleting a user NEVER ever deletes a document from a library.

The reference you see in a shared folder is merely a pointer pointing to the document from that user's mailbox.  When you delete the mailbox, such pointers are removed, but the actual documents are never removed or deleted.

Regards

Cobus

 

________________
Cobus Burgers
(Been around for many years)
0 Likes
The opinions expressed above are the personal opinions of the authors, not of Micro Focus. By using this site, you accept the Terms of Use and Rules of Participation. Certain versions of content ("Material") accessible here may contain branding from Hewlett-Packard Company (now HP Inc.) and Hewlett Packard Enterprise Company. As of September 1, 2017, the Material is now offered by Micro Focus, a separately owned and operated company. Any reference to the HP and Hewlett Packard Enterprise/HPE marks is historical in nature, and the HP and Hewlett Packard Enterprise/HPE marks are the property of their respective owners.