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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Is it normal for X Terminal / Neoware / Thin Clients to take up to 3 hours to get through the "Device Modeler" phase?

I'm trying to process 200 at a time, and I attached a spreadsheet of what my "Network Model Processing" looked like at some point.

I've been experience severe crashing with my discovery engine.exe (i do have a ticket open on it). Could this be the part of the reason? My discovery engine crashes every 30 minutes or so, and since it takes 3 hours to model a thin client. Sometimes I get lucky and the discovery engine runs long enough to model them.

Am i doing something wrong, or is it reasonable for a thin client to take 3 hours to 'model'?
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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Turn em all off. If Discovery Engine stop crashing, turn them on 1 at a time, till it crashes again. If that doesn't help, then we need to look elsewhere.

I'm guessing the realtime poller or arp table reader is the source of the issue.

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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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One of the big things that takes a lot of time is community string detection. Do you have a lot of community strings (or SNMPv3 equivalent) defined?

If you have community strings defined for IP ranges that have no SNMP agents, the system will 'waste' a lot of time trying them all every modelling interval.

With SNMP you can't tell if you have the wrong string or there is no SNMP, so you need to try all of them even when there is no SNMP agent.

If your x terminals have a MIB, you should send a mib walk to support for that.


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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Just one, 'public' - read only, SNMPv1/2.

Well I just turned my device modeler OFF and rebooted the server... and the Discovery Engine.exe is STILL crashing. So I guess I can eliminate the Modeler as the root cause.

A couple hours ago I uninstalled the server app, rebooted, and re-installed the server app, rebooted. 5 minutes after the services came back up up, discovery engine.exe crashed again.

Running out of options here, any other thoughts? As I said, I do have a ticket open with support, but I am desperate for ideas/suggestions.

-Jeff
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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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On the topic of crashes, what version are you running? I see 3 fixes in the 7.60 release notes around the discovery engine crashing.
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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Software
Version 7.60.000
Build 9273

Packages VERSION
jay 9.6.2140o
mib 9.1.1807a
rulebase 5.9.166
sai 2009.11.16
Discovery Knowledge
DiscoveryKnowledge 7.6.9309.cab
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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Here are some notes i have on the situation:

Notes:
-Discovery Engine.exe was working fine until 10/9/2009. On that day, I had completely wiped out DDMI 7.6, installed to a new and
--Major change was that devices like printers / thin clients / all sorts of devices are now being 'discovered'. Before the the total wipe, they were marked as "IP Only"
--Discovery engine.exe started crashing immediately after start up.

-Noticed modeling processing and queue was filled up 200 with Neoware thin clients, which were taking over 3 hours to query. Since the discovery engine was crashing every 15 minutes, these devices rarely got modeled
--i put all the thin clients into a device group and turned all configuration profiles off so they wouldn't hog the modeling queue
--this didnt help

-Discovery Engine only crashed 1-2 times the day before thanksgiving, and the day of thanksgiving, as well as a couple other random/non significant days. Leads me to believe this has to do with a particular device on the network or the total amount of devices on the network being too much for DDMI to handle

-Turned off Device Modeler in System Discovery Configuration, rebooted, crashed again 5 minutes after boot up. Eliminated modeler as root cause.

-35,000 devices discovered
-45,000 ports discovered
-14,000 devices inventoried
-16,000 devices with agents

-Monitored network traffic with someone from the network group. There was no easily identifiable correlation between discovery engine.exe crashing and amount of network traffic


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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Based on your additional info, I think some log file analysis is going to be required from support here. If it is crashing so often, I am guessing there is probably a device model that is corrupted in the database and when the system gets around to reading it (eg when merging on an ARP entry), something is not working.

When you did your re-arranging of directory structures, you did stay with the same (or later) discovery knowledge?

For debugging, in Admin>System configuration>discovery services, try turning OFF all these:

Explorer ping active
Table reader active
Device poller active
Resource poller active
Environmental poller active
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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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When i did the complete re-build, I had disabled all discovery services in the system configuration. I applied all the latest patches / disc. knowledge, which at that point was probably September. After all that, i flipped on all the discovery services.

Your theory makes sense. I'll forward it over to tech support and see if they haven't thought of that yet.

As for the debugging, what should I be looking for when disabling those services? Should i do them all at once or one at a time?


Thanks !
Jeff
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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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I'm unable to get a mib walk on the devices, unless I'm not doing something right. Below is all i see on them:

UNSPSC description: Mainframe console or dumb terminals
Model: Neoware Linux Station (Model Unknown)

UNSPSC model: Thin client computers
System description: Neoware Linux Station
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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Turn em all off. If Discovery Engine stop crashing, turn them on 1 at a time, till it crashes again. If that doesn't help, then we need to look elsewhere.

I'm guessing the realtime poller or arp table reader is the source of the issue.

View solution in original post

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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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For the x terminals, maybe they have no SNMP agent enabled or a different community string?

If the discovery engine is crashing you won't be able to get a mib walk from the MIB browser (it goes via the discovery engine). Use a command line tool (linux snmpwalk is fine) to get it instead.
Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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I know we are going back and forth on 2 seperate things, but here is a 'supposed' list of all the different thin clients in my environment. I dont know if there is a master list of what DDMI knows of so i can compare?

C50 Thin Client
Ca15 Thin Client
Ca19 Thin Client
Ca22 Thin Client
Ca5 Thin Client
Capio C50 Workstation
Capio One Multisession Thin Client
Capio One Thinclient
Capio One Workstation
E140 Thin Client
E140 Thin Client-Neoware
Eon 4000 Thin Client
Mt1500 Thin Client
Mt1560 Wireless Thin Client
Neoware C50 Thinclient
Net Terminal
T1010 Thin Client
T5530 Thin Client Tower
T5540 Thin Client
T5730W Thin Client
Thin Star 300
Thin Star 400
Thin Star 450
Thin Star 500
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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Doesn't look so good...

mysql> select Model_Name from Aggregate.Model where Model_Name like "%thin %";
+------------------------------------+
| Model_Name |
+------------------------------------+
| Compaq Evo T20 thin client |
| Compaq Thin Client (Model Unknown) |
| Winterm 2000 Series Thin Client |
+------------------------------------+
3 rows in set (0.00 sec)

(you can run this query yourself.. I have an older discovery knowledge)

Once we get this crashing issue sorted out, You need to submit your inventory list to support (under status>device status) for them to add the missing models.

Actually I recommend everybody does this, even if you think you don't have any problems. HP may find something they don't have in your device list.
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Jeff Sikorski Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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What is the formal e-mail address i should use to e-mail my csv?
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Matthew Darwin Absent Member.
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Re: Device Modeler / X Terminal Neoware Stations

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Just open a support case and attach the CSV and ask them to process it.
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