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4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

Reading the Readme I see:

Discontinued Functionality or Features

This version does not include the following items:


JBoss Community Edition

The .iso for this version of Identity Manager includes an
installation program for the Tomcat application server instead of JBoss
Community Edition.



I have yet to read far enough, but worth asking to clarify...

That means you can run the WAR files under Tomcat instead of JBOss?
That seems like a lighter stack to support, which would be a step forward.
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/22/2014 12:38 PM, Geoffrey Carman wrote:
> Reading the Readme I see:
>
> Discontinued Functionality or Features
>
> This version does not include the following items:
>
>
> JBoss Community Edition
>
> The .iso for this version of Identity Manager includes an
> installation program for the Tomcat application server instead of JBoss
> Community Edition.
>
>
>
> I have yet to read far enough, but worth asking to clarify...
>
> That means you can run the WAR files under Tomcat instead of JBOss? That
> seems like a lighter stack to support, which would be a step forward.


Since the 4.5 docs went live this morning, I see:
https://www.netiq.com/documentation/idm45/setup_guide/data/bemp7fv.html

Application Server


One of the following, at a minimum:

Apache Tomcat 7.0.55

IBM WebSphere 8.5.5.3

JBoss Enterprise Application Platform (EAP) 5.2


Now for a better question... Anyone expound on the pros/cons of Tomcat
vs JBoss vs Websphere?

I lean towards Tomcat as much thinner install than Jboss, let alone
WebSphere.

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/22/2014 2:48 PM, Geoffrey Carman wrote:
> Anyone expound on the pros/cons of Tomcat vs JBoss vs Websphere?


I think the majority of these revolves around one pointy haired boss.......

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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/22/2014 3:05 PM, Will Schneider wrote:
> On 10/22/2014 2:48 PM, Geoffrey Carman wrote:
>> Anyone expound on the pros/cons of Tomcat vs JBoss vs Websphere?

>
> I think the majority of these revolves around one pointy haired boss.......


Thats De'Boss, not JBoss. You are thinking of the German version. 🙂

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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?


geoffc;250209 Wrote:
> On 10/22/2014 3:05 PM, Will Schneider wrote:
> > On 10/22/2014 2:48 PM, Geoffrey Carman wrote:
> >> Anyone expound on the pros/cons of Tomcat vs JBoss vs Websphere?

> >
> > I think the majority of these revolves around one pointy haired

> boss.......
>
> Thats De'Boss, not JBoss. You are thinking of the German version. 🙂


Biggest difference is from a development standpoint. With tomcat you get
a basic servlet container. WebBoss and JBoss give you a lot of goodies
right off the bat:
Servlet/JSP container, JNDI, EJB, JTA, clustering, caching, JMS, JMX and
every other three-lettered-acronym-starting-with-a-J. You can get all
these things in Tomcat too bye adding stuff like OpenEJB, Spring,
Open-three-lettered-acronym-starting-with-a-J etc etc. Usually when
making something simple on Jboss you utilize it just like it's just the
container like Tomcat but you have all these future options open to you.
The reason why NetIQ dropped Jboss is probably cause it's Red Hat owned
I think.

Albert-Jan


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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

albertjanstevens wrote:

> Biggest difference is from a development standpoint. With tomcat you get
> a basic servlet container. WebBoss and JBoss give you a lot of goodies
> right off the bat:


This also has a security parallel.
All these extra bits might contain security vulnerabilities, which customers would be better off having an enterprise support contract to get timely fixes for.
A lot of users assumed that NetIQ offered some support for the bundled JBOSS community edition (which they didn't).

Also, standardizing on Tomcat helps make the whole product install smaller as iManager, SSPR, OneSSO etc also use it. No need to bundle two servlet containers.
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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/23/2014 7:25 AM, Alex McHugh wrote:
> albertjanstevens wrote:
>
>> Biggest difference is from a development standpoint. With tomcat you get
>> a basic servlet container. WebBoss and JBoss give you a lot of goodies
>> right off the bat:

>
> This also has a security parallel.
> All these extra bits might contain security vulnerabilities, which customers would be better off having an enterprise support contract to get timely fixes for.
> A lot of users assumed that NetIQ offered some support for the bundled JBOSS community edition (which they didn't).
>
> Also, standardizing on Tomcat helps make the whole product install smaller as iManager, SSPR, OneSSO etc also use it. No need to bundle two servlet containers.


Any performance differences? I.e. Is the smaller Tomcat footprint 'faster'?

I imgaine startup time is faster, as Jboss on a big UA could take a long
time (5-10 min is some labs) to start up. Whereas Tomcat seems to
restart likety split in the context of iManagers tomcat instance.

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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?


So,

If the customer only wants to use the product for the included services
like User Application and HPD I guess tomcat would be simpler to install
and maintain.
The one thing that I can directly think of is clustering since this is
an end-user application, is clustering possible with Tomcat or would
that be one reason for going with JBoss ?


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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?


It is possible to cluster Tomcat, in fact there are many, many ways to
do it. One way to do it is to have an apache instance connect to
multiple tomcat instances with mod_jk or mod_proxy. Then you can use
in-memory session replication , which is built in to tomcat, to have all
tomcat workers be aware of all sessions on the cluster.


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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/23/2014 9:17 AM, albertjanstevens wrote:
>
> It is possible to cluster Tomcat, in fact there are many, many ways to
> do it. One way to do it is to have an apache instance connect to
> multiple tomcat instances with mod_jk or mod_proxy. Then you can use
> in-memory session replication , which is built in to tomcat, to have all
> tomcat workers be aware of all sessions on the cluster.


Hey, want to write that process up for User App, for Cool Solutions?
That would be handy to have documented! They pay in Amazon gift cards!

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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/23/2014 10:04 AM, Geoffrey Carman wrote:
> On 10/23/2014 9:17 AM, albertjanstevens wrote:
>>
>> It is possible to cluster Tomcat, in fact there are many, many ways to
>> do it. One way to do it is to have an apache instance connect to
>> multiple tomcat instances with mod_jk or mod_proxy. Then you can use
>> in-memory session replication , which is built in to tomcat, to have all
>> tomcat workers be aware of all sessions on the cluster.

>
> Hey, want to write that process up for User App, for Cool Solutions?
> That would be handy to have documented! They pay in Amazon gift cards!
>

Greetings,
We do not support the use of Apache mod_jk or mod_proxy with the
Identity Applications.



--

Sincerely,
Steven Williams
Lead Software Engineer
NetIQ
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

On 10/23/2014 07:25 AM, Alex McHugh wrote:
> albertjanstevens wrote:
>
>> Biggest difference is from a development standpoint. With tomcat you get
>> a basic servlet container. WebBoss and JBoss give you a lot of goodies
>> right off the bat:

>
> This also has a security parallel.
> All these extra bits might contain security vulnerabilities, which customers would be better off having an enterprise support contract to get timely fixes for.
> A lot of users assumed that NetIQ offered some support for the bundled JBOSS community edition (which they didn't).
>
> Also, standardizing on Tomcat helps make the whole product install smaller as iManager, SSPR, OneSSO etc also use it. No need to bundle two servlet containers.
>

Greetings Alex,
I would suggest that you read the documentation:

Statements about Apache ActiveMQ, Apache Tomcat and PostgreSQL


A) From the Release Notes of 4.5
https://www.netiq.com/documentation/idm45/idm45_releasenotes/data/idm45_releasenotes.html#b149h4pv


“NetIQ Corporation Does Not Provide Support for the Components in the
PostgreSQL and Tomcat Installation

NetIQ Corporation provides the PostgreSQL and Tomcat installation as a
convenience. If your company does not already provide an application
server and a database server, you can use install these components. If
you need support, go to the provider of the component. NetIQ does not
provide updates for these components, or administration, configuration,
or tuning information for these components, beyond what it is outlined
in the NetIQ Identity Manager Setup Guide”

B) From the Set-up Guide
1) Prerequisites and Requirements for Installing Tomcat
https://www.netiq.com/documentation/idm45/setup_guide/data/b1ava63k.html

2) Prerequisites and Requirements for Installing PostgreSQL
https://www.netiq.com/documentation/idm45/setup_guide/data/b1ava63l.html

“For your convenience, NetIQ bundles Apache Tomcat and PostgreSQL in the
same installation program.

If your company does not already provide an application server and a
database server, you can use this convenience installer to install an
Open Source version of these components. This installer provides an
Oracle JRE, open source versions of Apache Tomcat Web Server, Apache
ActiveMQ, and PostgreSQL database server as a basis for Identity
Manager. This installer lets you install these components without
downloading them separately. However, NetIQ does not provide enterprise
support for these components.

NetIQ recommends using an enterprise application server for staging and
production environments, and creating development environments by using
this convenience installer. If you need support, go to the provider of
the component. NetIQ does not provide updates for these components, or
administration, configuration, or tuning information beyond what it is
outlined in the NetIQ Identity Manager documentation.
“

3) Using the Integrated Installation Process for a Test Environment =>
Understanding the Integrated Installation Process => Identity Applications
https://www.netiq.com/documentation/idm45/setup_guide/data/b1bnj2yz.html#b1bqickw

“The installation process provides an Oracle JRE, open source versions
of Apache Tomcat Web Server, Apache ActiveMQ, and PostgreSQL database
server as a basis for Identity Manager. This installer lets you install
these components without downloading them separately. However, NetIQ
does not provide enterprise support for these components.

NetIQ recommends using an enterprise application server for staging and
production environments, and creating development environments by using
this convenience installer. NetIQ does not provide support and updates
for these components, or administration, configuration, or tuning in. If
you need support, go to the third party provider of the component.
“

C) From the TomcatPostgreSQL Convenience Installer
1) The License Agreement panel

“This convenience installer will provide an Oracle JRE as well as open
source versions of Apache Tomcat Web Server, Apache ActiveMQ, and/or
PostgreSQL database server as a basis for Identity Manager.

NetIQ does not provide enterprise support for these components.
.....

“

--

Sincerely,
Steven Williams
Lead Software Engineer
NetIQ
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

Steven Williams wrote:

> Greetings Alex,
> I would suggest that you read the documentation:


Steven, I was not trying to suggest that the Tomcat bundled with IDM app components was supported (I'd read these caveats) by NetIQ.
Thanks for the clarification though.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?


I think we all understand that we got an unsupported Tomcat instead of
an unsupported JBoss.
Still, I believe many customers will use what is bundled whatever I tell
them.

Supported is the way to go.
JBoss being RedHat, is it possible to get JBoss support from Suse? I
know they do RedHat support but that might be only the server part.


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Re: 4.5 change, no more JBoss installer?

joakim ganse wrote:

> I think we all understand that we got an unsupported Tomcat instead of
> an unsupported JBoss.
> Still, I believe many customers will use what is bundled whatever I tell
> them.


That is exactly my point, whilst unsupported by NetIQ and recommended only for test, many customers will still use it in production.

Not every customer has an existing Java web application server infrastructure, many of the customers I work with have standardised on a .NET web application server infrastructure.
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