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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Alan,

Where have you been? Thought you fell off the planet or something.

Good to see you again!


Alan Adams wrote:
> Barry Schnur <BSchnur@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I've tried to get Vista 64 to see my 6.5 SP5 plus post SP5 updates via
>> CIFS -- no joy here.

>
> For me Vista x86 & x64 both behaved like XP Professional x64, in that
> they were unable to connect to NetWare 6.5 SP5 via CIFS. (When
> multiple XP Professional SP2 x86 machines were hitting the same server
> via CIFs just fine. All in workgroup mode.)
>
> LAN traces showed that an NTLMv2-specific failure was the first
> hurdle, and indeed Vista and XP x64 (and Visa, and 2003 SP1) had a new
> default for the "Network security: Lan Manager authentication level"
> policy that now requires NTLMv2.
>
> (Specifically the default for 2003 SP1, XP x64 and Vista is "Send
> NTLMv2 only". XP Professional SP2 x86 defaulted to "Send LM & NTLM".)
>
> Setting that policy to be something "inbetween" the XP Professional
> SP2 x86 default and the new default -- specifically "Send LM & NTLM -
> use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated" -- got me part of the way
> there. But against NetWare CIFS all of these platforms still failed,
> except now the LAN trace showed that the error was during a DCE RPC
> bind.
>
> So I went looking to see "do I have Novell's current CIFS updates",
> and found the 15MAR2006 n65nss5a.exe which addressed several ambiguous
> things like "Fixed CIFS problem when doing START->Run->\\<cifs
> server>> on Win2K/XP clients".
> http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2973412.htm
>
> With this CIFS update applied, now my Vista x86, Vista x64, and XP
> Professional x64 all connect successfully to my NetWare 6.5 SP5 CIFS.
> But if and only if I've backed off their "Network security: Lan
> Manager authentication level" policy from its new default of "Send
> NTLMv2 only" to be "Send LM & NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if
> negotiated" or lower. Apparently the NetWare CIFS still doesn't
> support NTLMv2 completely/properly.
>
> - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Regarding your Vista x64 seeing other computers in a workgroup where
> other computers have no problem seeing the Vista machine, there is a
> somewhat obscure "public" versus "private" designation Vista has for
> networks it connects to, which affects whether its even permitting
> computer discovery
>
> If you right-click the network icon in the system tray and go to the
> "Network and Sharing Center", it should show whether it considers the
> current network a "(Private network)" or "(Public network)" and the
> status of functions such as discovery, password required, etc.
>
> Alan Adams
> alancrumbadams@drcrumb.com
> (for email, remove the crumbs)

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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Alan Adams <alancrumbadams@drcrumb.com> wrote:

> ...and indeed Vista and XP x64 (and Visa, and 2003 SP1) had
> a new default for the "Network security: Lan Manager
> authentication level" policy that now requires NTLMv2.


Actually my "Visa" is fine. Brain temporarily disconnected from my
keyboard while trying to list the post-2003 SP1 platforms.

But I needed to revisit this statement anyway, because I did not get
my facts correct. (1) I flubbed the fact that some of these platforms
are actually defaulting to "Send NTLM response only", and not "Send
NTLMv2 response only". And (2) I included Server 2003 because of what
seems to be an incorrect statement in KB823659 that "made sense" but
allowed me to draw incorrect conclusions.

KB823659 indicates "Windows Server 2003 has a new default setting to
use NTLMv2 only" and reinforced what I thought I was seeing on XP x64
(which is also based on Server 2003 SP1 code base). But I do not find
this fact to bear out in the default Server 2003 systems I have access
to either. Both 2003 SP1 x86 and 2003 SP1 x64 appear to default to
"Send NTLM response only". XP Professional x64 actually defaults to
"Send NTLM response only" too, not "Send NTLMv2 response only" as I
originally reported. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/823659/

So I must restate my test and failure platforms as:

XP Professional x64 (which defaults to "Send NTLM response only"), and
Vista x86 & Vista x64 (which both default to "Send NTLMv2 response
only"). All three of these platforms fail to access NetWare 6.5 SP5
CIFS successfully in my testing.

Changing the "Network security: Lan Manager authentication level"
policy to "Send LM & NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated"
allowed these three platforms to succeed in my testing, but only after
also applying n65nss5a.exe to the NetWare 6.5 SP5 CIFS configuration.

To my knowledge and testing thus far, neither Server 2003 SP1 x86 nor
Server 2003 SP1 x64 fail against NetWare 6.5 SP5 CIFS, even though the
default policy is also "Send NTLM response only" just like XP x64.
When I'm not wasting time correcting myself, I'll have to look at the
LAN traces to see if there are clues as to why.

Alan Adams
alancrumbadams@drcrumb.com
(for email, remove the crumbs)
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> My guess is a default security setting involving some type of packet
> signing.
>

Makes sense, but wading through the reordered User Interface in Vista
makes figuring this stuff out more work than it should be (and of
course it really should be sort of straightforward, but Vista is
Microsoft's way of saying LEARN SuSE <smile>)



--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Alan, you're the man! Thanks for that, I'll play with this on the
morrow.


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Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> There's no Novell client for OS/2?! Dammit!
>

So write one!

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Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> It would be great if Novell had a client for every OS out there from the
> MACs to OS/2, but Novell has generally only created clients for
> mainstream Operating systems, which XP64 is not. Novell has always
> created solutions for the other product such as letting the Novell
> server emulate a Unix Box, MAC, or Windows Server (Since NW5.x with
> inexpensive add-ons).
>
>

Understood -- and Alan has pointed me toward a CIFs solution for the 64
bit Windows setups -- I'll try that out tomorrow.


--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 06:30:58 +0000, Barry Schnur wrote:

>> There's no Novell client for OS/2?! Dammit!
>>

> So write one!


Um... I was kidding. The last time I used OS/2 was when I got tired of
waiting for M$ to release "Chicago". Didn't IBM retire OS/2? Think I
read something about that a little while back.

Joe
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Craig,

craig wilson wrote:
>
> My guess is a default security setting involving some type of packet
> signing.


Given the latest patches are applied to NW6.5, this shouldn't be it.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Support Connection Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Alan,

Alan Adams wrote:
>
> To my knowledge and testing thus far, neither Server 2003 SP1 x86 nor
> Server 2003 SP1 x64 fail against NetWare 6.5 SP5 CIFS, even though the
> default policy is also "Send NTLM response only" just like XP x64.


I can attest that they *do* fail against plain SP5, but work unchanged
after nss5a is applied.

CU,
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Massimo Rosen
Novell Support Connection Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Duane Fish <duanedfish@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

> Where have you been? Thought you fell off the planet or something.


Had to let go of other things and hang on to my day job with both
hands for a spell there.

Alan Adams
alancrumbadams@drcrumb.com
(for email, remove the crumbs)
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

Massimo Rosen <mrosenno@spamcfc-it.de> wrote:

> Alan Adams wrote:
> >
> > To my knowledge and testing thus far, neither Server 2003 SP1 x86 nor
> > Server 2003 SP1 x64 fail against NetWare 6.5 SP5 CIFS, even though the
> > default policy is also "Send NTLM response only" just like XP x64.

>
> I can attest that they *do* fail against plain SP5, but work unchanged
> after nss5a is applied.


Yeah, I should go to bed yesterday and wake up to do that post over.
Realizing that my 2003 conclusions were wrong /after/ having already
patched the server needed me to just reset everything.

Thanks for the confirmation; I certainly take your observation over
mine on this point.

Alan Adams
alancrumbadams@drcrumb.com
(for email, remove the crumbs)
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> Given the latest patches are applied to NW6.5, this shouldn't be it.

Actually, it seems it is, with my NW 6.5 SP5 plus post SP5 updates, it
turns out that the default Network Security Policy in XP64 (and Vista)
is: Send NTLMv2 Only

Alan provided this tip and I just tried it out with success on Vista
64, I changed the setting to:

Send LM & NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated

That works.


--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> I can attest that they *do* fail against plain SP5, but work unchanged
> after nss5a is applied.


Strange, in my setup I have NSS5a deployed and it didn't work, I needed
to make the change.


--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> Thanks for the confirmation; I certainly take your observation over
> mine on this point.
>

Alan, for what its worth, I found in my setup I still needed to make
the change on the Vista 64 system

NSS is at 3.24.01 here -- I did that last week, bounced the server
twice since then for various reasons, so I know the update is in place
on the server.



--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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Re: 64 bit Novell Client for windows???

> Um... I was kidding. The last time I used OS/2 was when I got tired of
> waiting for M$ to release "Chicago". Didn't IBM retire OS/2? Think I
> read something about that a little while back.
>

Golly, just because its retired is no excuse -- after all, there are
folks complaining they can't get Vista 64 to log in to NetWare 3.11 <g>


--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
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