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Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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OES2 Licensing query

Hi all. I have fought tooth and nail to keep our company with Novell for 6 years, trashing any AD sales man that walked through the door with ease due to the amazing product suite of OES with eDirectory, iprint etc etc.

We have 10 Netware servers (stable as anything) which approx 600 users connect to, and a brand new OES2 cluster (unstable, horrific, due to be rebuilt as 64 bit OES is a horrible mixture of 32/64 bit libraries which has utterly broken, even Novell experts could not fix it, nor explain why it had gone wrong) running on SLES10 with over 600 users. We use 700 devices on Zenworks 7.

As already mentioned, NOvell support is quite simply the worst in the entire world, and I rarely phone them now and usually manage to fix all my faults.. and now its license renewel times,

Renew Zenworks - Fine
Renew Novell licenses for 1200 users, fine
and
Pay an extra £65000 for the 600 users that need upgrading to an OES2 license... WTF!?!?!?

All these users run Windows xp, with client 4.91 happily. All use iprint which runs from every server locally, all obviously use eDirectory. They all get exactly the same service, except the Netware users have greater stability.

So what exactly am I paying for? Its not support.. Its not for enhanced service.. as far as I am concerned it is nothing.

Can anyone advise exactly what half my users, with absolutly no visible or obvious gains are going to pay for? What is my £65000 buying exactly?. The AD salesman are rubbing their hands as the management dont care about how great eDirectory is compared to AD and Novell is about to be completelt eradicated from the company based on this 'extra cash for sweet f**k all' they are demanding.

I am actually considering migrating back to a Netware cluster to be honest, I dont care if its not supported as I know the kernal back to front, but this is a clear step back. Novell are coming in next week to try and sell sell sell, but I want to be fully prepared
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Knowledge Partner Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

We're on MLA, so our licensing may be a bit different, but there was no "NetWare to OES2" licensing when we renewed. They're one and the same. However, we are on a USER licensing model.

IN that case (for MLA), the audit tool counts all your users in eDir, "weeds" out the ones that haven't logged in in the last 60 days or are disabled (I think) and whatever's left over is what you pay licenses for (I think it also weeds out the "system" accounts like: wwwrun, nfauuser and things like that).

So perhaps you have some extra accounts you didn't think were your actual users? (like we have "test" accounts, so we have to pay for those as well since we DO use them).

The exception (again, for MLA) is that we also have LDAP-only accounts (users that do NOT access OES services OTHER than eDir via LDAP). Those we have to weed out as well.

Theoretically we should have like 3200 actual users that are getting a paycheck, but because these people come back as "volunteers", and continue to login and use file/print, etc. we have to pay for those accounts as well.

You can look at the detailed report that the audit tool generates to see which users it has counted.
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

leecymj wrote:

> Renew Novell licenses for 1200 users, fine
> and
> Pay an extra £65000 for the 600 users that need upgrading to an OES2
> license... WTF!?!?!?


That doesn't make any sense. As long as you've always had maintenance
on NetWare, that rolled right into OES2. If you have 1200 licenses
that gives those 1200 users access to either NW or OES2 (Linux). It
doesn't matter which platform those 1200 users are accessing.

--
Novell Knowledge Partner
Enhancement Requests: http://www.novell.com/rms

Joe Marton Emeritus Knowledge Partner
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Knowledge Partner Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Hi.

On 20.07.2011 15:36, leecymj wrote:
> Renew Zenworks - Fine
> Renew Novell licenses for 1200 users, fine
> and
> Pay an extra £65000 for the 600 users that need upgrading to an OES2
> license... WTF!?!?!?


That sounds like you're fallen victim to a ripoff reseller. As long as
you kept your Netware licenses current with maintenance (which it seems
you did, as you said "renew", you do not need to buy any OES2 licenses,
cause you already own them. All 1200. Any "Netware" license renewed or
bought in the last ca. 4 years is automatically an OES2 license.


CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Thanks for the replies. The 1200 users do NOT include system id's, they are all active users, and we constantly check for anyone who hasnt used the system for 30 days (disabled) and 60 days (deleted). We renew constantly, every year without fail (£141 per head?). Last year we started to introduce SLES10 OES2 servers into the tree (which consists of Netware 6.5 OES servers. Since then we have has nothing but pain, with over 14 SR's raised with Novell with not a SINGLE ONE fixed. Thats a by-the-by but an indication of how we are getting less of a product.. not more.

This licensing issue is enough to drive management over the edge into the dark, dank depths of AD, and reading the above assures me that someone hasnt got a clue about selling Novell Licenses.
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

leecymj;2122943 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. The 1200 users do NOT include system id's, they are all active users, and we constantly check for anyone who hasnt used the system for 30 days (disabled) and 60 days (deleted). We renew constantly, every year without fail (£141 per head?). Last year we started to introduce SLES10 OES2 servers into the tree (which consists of Netware 6.5 OES servers. Since then we have has nothing but pain, with over 14 SR's raised with Novell with not a SINGLE ONE fixed. Thats a by-the-by but an indication of how we are getting less of a product.. not more.

This licensing issue is enough to drive management over the edge into the dark, dank depths of AD, and reading the above assures me that someone hasnt got a clue about selling Novell Licenses.


I have also found out, just now, that it is (apparently) Novell telling our reseller to get the 'upgrade to OES2' licence cost. This is apparently due to the fact that we had to buy an extra 20 licenses for new helpdesk staff, and now we are legally bound to buy 681 'Upgrade to OES2' licenses and are threatening court action.

An actual Novell rep is coming in next week, but I suspect it is too late now.. a brand new AD 2008 R2 server with a new domain was setup yesterday by a very expensive third party. Looks like I am rebuilding our Novell OES SLES10 OES2 cluster back to Netware 6.5 for the short term just to give Novell the finger (the 681 figure comes from all the users out there who now connect to the new OES2 cluster, not new users, just ones who were on the old cluster, who have been migrated to the new).

What a nightmare...
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

OK the final figures are in..

We pay

1 yr Maintaince for 1100 Netware/OES users at £141 for 2 users (£70.50 per user)

We bought 20 more OES2 licenses for 20 new helpdesk users these were just described as 20 OES2 liencese.

Novell are now informing us that we are legally bound to legally upgrade all 1100 of the other licenses to OES2 at a cost of £68 per 2 users. This information does come directo from Novell.
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Absolute final update. This is written on the quote from Novell

"Open Enterprise Server: The 1125 licenses are broken into two versions. 685 at version 1 and 440 at version 2. The 685 are now required to be upgraded as customer has maintainance on 20 of the 440 licenses and will have maintaince on the 144 new licenses. This is in accordance with the buying program rules (ALL license must be covered with maintainance and at the current version when being maintained)

The above 1105 OES maintaince is made up of 685 (for the upgrades) and 420 of the 440 mentioned in the Open Enterprise Server explanation"
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Knowledge Partner Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Something's just not right, unless EMEA customers are in a diff. licensing scheme. Or you had your previous maintenance lapse (but doesn't sound like it)

If you had maintenance on NetWare, you should've gotten FREE upgrade to OES2, for the same user count. There's no UPGRADE cost for that (again, I speak strictly from my knowledge of US VLA/MLA).

If you had to buy 20 new licenses, then yes, there's the 20 new license cost, plus maintenance

I would request a conf. call with your Auditor and the sales rep and go through the numbers and get an explaination of why Novell thinks you needed to purchase UPGRADE licenses for 600 users.

To me, it just doesn't make sense.

For your SR's, if you have gotten no movement, have you posted in the "ask a technical support manager"?

You can also post some of the questions here in the install or migration forums for OES2 and see if we can help (have you checked out my migration guides)?
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Absent Member.
Absent Member.

kjhurni;2123010 wrote:
Something's just not right, unless EMEA customers are in a diff. licensing scheme. Or you had your previous maintenance lapse (but doesn't sound like it)

If you had maintenance on NetWare, you should've gotten FREE upgrade to OES2, for the same user count. There's no UPGRADE cost for that (again, I speak strictly from my knowledge of US VLA/MLA).

If you had to buy 20 new licenses, then yes, there's the 20 new license cost, plus maintenance


Using VLA/MLA as a search term based on what you said above, I was able to find Novells official (from Novell.com) MLA/VLA document and extract THIS

Upgrade Protection
While you are under Maintenance for a product, you are entitled to receive any upgrades to the product released during the Maintenance coverage period. When a new version of a Novell product is released, you are immediately and automatically licensed to use the new version, eliminating unforeseen software upgrade expenses. Your Maintenance purchase covers all software version updates and upgrades during the coverage period. As a result - depending on product release cycles - you may receive multiple updates and upgrades by paying a single Maintenance fee for each license.

So from what I read with THIS (and we have had perpetual renewel, we never miss any, and as soon as we get a new user, as part of the provisioning process, they get a novell license), as soon as OES2 came out, were were licensed to use it.

kjhurni;2123010 wrote:
I would request a conf. call with your Auditor and the sales rep and go through the numbers and get an explaination of why Novell thinks you needed to purchase UPGRADE licenses for 600 users.

To me, it just doesn't make sense.


No it makes NO sense, and they are sending a rep next week.. and we are gonna rip him to shreds. Trying to extract £65000 from a company is horrific.. does that qualify as 'Grand Larceny' 8o)

For your SR's, if you have gotten no movement, have you posted in the "ask a technical support manager"?

You can also post some of the questions here in the install or migration forums for OES2 and see if we can help (have you checked out my migration guides)?

I have been able to fix almost all my problems alone, and the migration is fine.. the problems we are having at the moment which are resulting in a rebuild is that NCP is competely breaking dow trying to access 64bit libraries from the LIB container, and 32bit libraries from the LIB64 container, its all very annoying. 4 different OES engineers at Novell have been unable to assist. We are going to rebuild.. and stick to a nice, stable 32bit platform.
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