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OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missing?

Hi All,

I've read and heard that Backup Exec doesn't support OES2 w/ NSS. Wanting to actually see the problem for myself, I installed it in my test environment.

Here's the details:

SLES 10SP1 x64 +OES2 x64 (unpatched)
Backup Exec for Windows 10.1 rev 5621 (on Server 2003 SP0)

I copied a few hundred photos and a couple of ISOs onto the NSS volumes.

Then I backed up the NSS path /media/nss/V1/path. I then restored them to /media/nss/V1/<restored>/path.

I ran some md5 checks, and the restored files seem to be intact.

I understand the BE might have issues restoring file system permissions, and it might not backup eDir on SLES. Excluding these limitations, it seems to run fine for me.

Am I missing something here??

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Yes, you are missing some important facts.

If you do a full restore of a crashed server, not all the files wil restore, there will be a large number which will not go back due to there being some sort of rights/privileges problems. These files, however, can be restored to a linux directory, and then copied across with no problems.
There is, hoever, no way of determining a quick fix to get around the files failing to restore:- Could find in excess of 20,000 files which do not go back.

I actually, on a crashed server, restored all the directories to a linux folder, and copied each one in turn to the appropriate nss volume. It was then necessary to set up user and group rights for all the directories which were restored.

Next thing is that the rights are not restored to the files. Look at the files in console one and you will see what I mean.

The final MAJOR problem is that if you try to view the voume in Console One, you will not get all the attributes showing up so you cannot grant rights to for users to folders, etc. The Backup exec automatically restores a .Netware ( I think this is the file which is based at root). If you miss off this file during a restore , the volume does not get bu????ed up.

I have discovered these problems from the version 12 of Backup Exec, but I presume that they will exist on the earlier version.

Regards,

ChasR.
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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Thanks for the quick reply and insight chas.

chas;1575383 wrote:

There is, hoever, no way of determining a quick fix to get around the files failing to restore:- Could find in excess of 20,000 files which do not go back.


Do these files generate a failure in the restore log, or do they just fail to restore without any indication?

chas;1575383 wrote:

I actually, on a crashed server, restored all the directories to a linux folder, and copied each one in turn to the appropriate nss volume. It was then necessary to set up user and group rights for all the directories which were restored.

Next thing is that the rights are not restored to the files. Look at the files in console one and you will see what I mean.


This just doen't seem like a huge deal... 99.99% of the time I do single file or single directory restores. The majority of my rights assignments are done to user home directories, and there are a number of utilities that can fix this via a batch mechinism.

chas;1575383 wrote:

The final MAJOR problem is that if you try to view the voume in Console One, you will not get all the attributes showing up so you cannot grant rights to for users to folders, etc. The Backup exec automatically restores a .Netware


Again, this just doesn't seem like a big deal (as of yet). I knew the .Netware file might be an issue, so I simply excluded it from my backup jobs. I was able to sucessfully modify rights assigments to both the files and directories that I restored.

Perhaps I'm oversimplying, but I see these problems being more of an annoyance than a show stopper. I keep reading about these problems... and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. So far I've heard nothing.

I've heard that a number of these bugs with BE and OES2 should be fixed in an upcoming BE service pack.. we'll see.

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

The major problem is to do with the volume if you forget to omit the .netware file. Once you have done this, you cannot properly assign rights via console one, however, iManager still works for this function. There is a support query in with novell regarding losing the ability to manage the volume, and a number of people are waiting the outcome, as the problem can manifest itself by a number of different means.

As you say, it is no great deal to restore a single file, but, as I have already said, restore to a linux direstory, and copy across. That was, you can set up rights, etc.

As long as you are aware of the potential problems, and the subsequent gotchas, backup exec is a cost effective solution which does work.

By the way, you get a bl??dy big log of the failed restored items from backup exec, but it is too big to handle. Since rights are not restored, and as log as there is room on the linux part of the system, just restore the volumes to a linux directory, copy it across and assign rights. This does work!!

Regards,

ChasR
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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Ok,

So I found a snag in 10D that might be addressed in 12.

The Unix/Linux agent doesn't seem to know how to handle incremental/differential backup jobs. Even if incremental or differential is selected you still get fulls.

The BE 12 documentation makes mention of this, so I'll be exploring version 12. I was hoping to get by on v10, as I've already got a full plate and don't need something else to upgrade.

BTW, the major reason that I'm trying to get BE working is that we have a tremendous investment in it. I looked into Backup Express, but the licensing model was cost prohibitive for our environment.

Thanks!

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

mcolwell;1575873 wrote:
Ok,
The Unix/Linux agent doesn't seem to know how to handle incremental/differential backup jobs. Even if incremental or differential is selected you still get fulls.


I found a solution for BE 10. I thought I'd share it in case anyone else is reading this thread.

Check out When running a differential or incremental backup by modified time, the backup will be as large as the full backup by modified time if the same selection list is not used.

-Matt

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

I am not sure if those previous statements are all correct as I have had different experiences. I do not like the fact that BE will not backup certain files, however I do get full trustee rights back when restoring on OES2. This is possible by enabling the listXattrNWmetadata value for the NSS volume. This allows root users to see the meta data/trustee rights. This was an OES2 client backing up to a windows 2003 media server.

Also, I have noticed you cannot manage NSS rights with C1 regardless if BE screwed up .netware or not. This appears to be a bug in C1 with OES2. I have ran a freshy install of OES2 and cannot manage these rights. iManager, novell client and the rights cli command still work.

Now as far as I am concerned, I am pretty fed up with Symantec and their stalling with BE. I would like to plug the company SEP as their product sesam is very competitively priced and technically impressive. The OS support is amazing and their OES2 product can backup groupwise and edir as well. Documentation is lacking, however.
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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Symantec BE is by no means perfect, but I'm stuck with it for at least another year.

I liked the looks of Syncsort BackupExpress, but it was way to pricey for us.

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Update:

I'm now at the deployment phase, and I have issues (big surprise)

I've upgraded to BE12 - because that's what I have RALUS keys for. I have the following issues:

1) RALUS doesn't start on system boot, even though it is setup to.

2) RALUS bombs out during backup operations.

I'm working on these issues, but Symantec support is sub-par. Also, given the fact that OES2 isn't officially supported good help is hard to find.

I've avoided some of the NSS features like user and directory quotas and compression thinking that BE might have issues with it.

Here's a snapshot of my environment in case anyone is interested.

Central BE12D (32 bit) running on Server 2003 w/ SP2
- running CASO, LEO

Remote servers run BE12D (32 bit) on Win XP w/ SP2

Remote servers run SLES 10SP1 + OES2 (64 bit)

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

We are currently moving from NetWare to OES2 Linux, and we are not taking veritas with us. After investigation and reading articles on the web, I had syncsort come in and give us a product demo of their backup solution against OES2. The demo was awsome, and sycnsort works fantastic with OES2, plus they have no issues with GroupWise. We have now been using Syncsort Backup Express for 7 months and are very happy with it. Not only are we backing up NetWare, Linux, OES2, and windows with it; this thing does wonders with VMWARE ESX and the VCB module. Forget this veritas crap and look at another solution.
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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missing?

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:26:02 +0000, csday wrote:

> We are currently moving from NetWare to OES2 Linux, and we are not taking
> veritas with us. After investigation and reading articles on the web, I
> had syncsort come in and give us a product demo of their backup solution
> against OES2. The demo was awsome, and sycnsort works fantastic with
> OES2, plus they have no issues with GroupWise. We have now been using
> Syncsort Backup Express for 7 months and are very happy with it. Not only
> are we backing up NetWare, Linux, OES2, and windows with it; this thing
> does wonders with VMWARE ESX and the VCB module.


Unfortunately unless you're an academic institution or a very large
company with a very large budget, Backup Express is insanely expensive.
We're going to continue using Backup Exec here for two of our locations,
but in our third location which is the smallest I'm seriously considering
Zmanda (based off the open source Amanda package which Novell actually
includes with NOWS-SBE).

--
Joe Marton
Novell Support Forum SysOp
Novell does not officially monitor these forums!
http://forums.novell.com/

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Re: OES2 and Backup Exec 10d - seems to work-what am I missi

Joseph Marton;1623676 wrote:
Unfortunately unless you're an academic institution or a very large company with a very large budget, Backup Express is insanely expensive.


We are an academic institution, and even with our discount Backup Express was going to run us more than $51,000. I was suprized to see a licensing model that nickel and dimed you more than Backup Exec.

It's really too bad. If their pricing was more aggressive I could see them killing Backup Exec.

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