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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

ESXi 5 infrastructure, OES2 (NW 6.5.8) VM with vRDM iSCSI SAN LUNs

SAN array does Snapshot, which works great if one were using Windows to
access it (physical or VM) as per:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owNBXZ4wDqs

But with NSS volumes I expect it to be way more troublesome

Ofcourse I can bring snapshot online, rescan ESXi storage, could even hot
add to running OES2 VM, but the volume name would be the same, so OES2 would
most likely get a fit, am I right?

Seb


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Knowledge Partner
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Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

On 15.03.2012 11:27, Sebastian Cerazy wrote:
> ESXi 5 infrastructure, OES2 (NW 6.5.8) VM with vRDM iSCSI SAN LUNs
>
> SAN array does Snapshot, which works great if one were using Windows to
> access it (physical or VM) as per:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owNBXZ4wDqs
>
> But with NSS volumes I expect it to be way more troublesome
>
> Ofcourse I can bring snapshot online, rescan ESXi storage, could even hot
> add to running OES2 VM, but the volume name would be the same, so OES2 would
> most likely get a fit, am I right?


Right. If you're unlucky, bringing the snapshot back online to the same
server could even corrupt all your data on both devices up to total loss.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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spgsitsupport Absent Member.
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Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

It just really want me to go away (after years of using it) from all Novell ...

Each time it is a hustle to get something working, and each time something works it feels like a great battle won... yet on Windows most of the issues are not even noticeable by the network admin (because they just work & are supported)

Seb
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Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

spgsitsupport;2182654 wrote:
Each time it is a hustle to get something working, and each time something works it feels like a great battle won... yet on Windows most of the issues are not even noticeable by the network admin (because they just work & are supported)


That is true for many products that don't have MS branded on or are coded to work with MS in some way.

But it would indeed be great/grand/excellent if these type vendors (SAN's/server & virtualisation solutions) would build in more support for Linux filesystems in general. NSS on OES would not be to big a step a way after that imo.

Even with MS and where mounting SAN snapshots are concerned, I've always been told to keep the snapshot away from the original server as strange things might happen within the OS.

-Willem
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

Well, one can "cheat"

If we talk about Virtual environment, then one can spin a VM that has the
snapshot disk attached & boot with Portlock Boot CD

Then one can explore the NSS volume & pickup whatever data is needed. It is
not the fastest solution (NSS browsing takes a while), but at least it is
workable

Seb




"Massimo Rosen" <mrosenNO@SPAMcfc-it.de> wrote in message
news:ywk8r.5632$V43.4306@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> On 15.03.2012 11:27, Sebastian Cerazy wrote:
>> ESXi 5 infrastructure, OES2 (NW 6.5.8) VM with vRDM iSCSI SAN LUNs
>>
>> SAN array does Snapshot, which works great if one were using Windows to
>> access it (physical or VM) as per:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owNBXZ4wDqs
>>
>> But with NSS volumes I expect it to be way more troublesome
>>
>> Ofcourse I can bring snapshot online, rescan ESXi storage, could even hot
>> add to running OES2 VM, but the volume name would be the same, so OES2
>> would
>> most likely get a fit, am I right?

>
> Right. If you're unlucky, bringing the snapshot back online to the same
> server could even corrupt all your data on both devices up to total loss.
>
> CU,
> --
> Massimo Rosen
> Novell Knowledge Partner
> No emails please!
> http://www.cfc-it.de



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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

One of the few nice things about the Windows OS in this particular scenario is that you can (probably depends on the SAN vendor) load the snapshot on the same OS, mount the drive (Windows just won't let you mount two drives as the same drive letter, so you're okay there), and then restore the file. Personally I dislike having to mount an entire drive just to do a file restore (not sure if it's all that much faster than restoring from tape--I guess it depends on a variety of factors).

But on OES, yes, it's a rather nasty nightmare, IMO, compared to how MS handles it.
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

On 16.03.2012 14:57, Sebastian Cerazy wrote:
> Well, one can "cheat"
>
> If we talk about Virtual environment, then one can spin a VM that has the
> snapshot disk attached& boot with Portlock Boot CD


Why so complicated and with a thirs party tool one has to buy? You can
easily attach the snapshot to any other OES Server in your tree (doesn't
even need to have it's own NSS volumes), and mount it, including all
trustees. You just have to make *absolutely* sure you never attach it to
the server holding the original at the same time.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

On 16.03.2012 15:16, kjhurni wrote:
>
> One of the few nice things about the Windows OS in this particular
> scenario is that you can (probably depends on the SAN vendor) load the
> snapshot on the same OS, mount the drive (Windows just won't let you
> mount two drives as the same drive letter, so you're okay there), and
> then restore the file. Personally I dislike having to mount an entire
> drive just to do a file restore (not sure if it's all that much faster
> than restoring from tape--I guess it depends on a variety of factors).
>
> But on OES, yes, it's a rather nasty nightmare, IMO, compared to how MS
> handles it.


I'll take the advantages of NSS, *especially* it's completely
transparent and consistent naming of pools and volumes over windows
drive mapping nightmare everyday, thanks. 😉

Also, try to do this with dynmaic drives, or DFS junctions, or hardlinks
pointing to the drive in question in place with Windows.

The chances you toast all your data with windows might be slimmer, but
they *do* exist too. It's simply a bad idea to attach a 100% clone of a
drive to the same OS that holds the master.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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spgsitsupport Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

But on Windows you can attach it to ANY (and I mean ANY) OS and copy the data instantly to anywhere you want on the network

Try to do the same with NetWare or Linux, not really (as agreed on) possible

Even Portlock solution of accessing NSS volumes relies 100% on Windows.

So (with great sadness) I must admit that the Novell filesharing experience is getting less & less pleasant to work with as other technologies evolve

How about NSS volume duplication at OS level, anything exists that can do it in real time?

Seb
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

mrosen;2182977 wrote:
On 16.03.2012 15:16, kjhurni wrote:
>
> One of the few nice things about the Windows OS in this particular
> scenario is that you can (probably depends on the SAN vendor) load the
> snapshot on the same OS, mount the drive (Windows just won't let you
> mount two drives as the same drive letter, so you're okay there), and
> then restore the file. Personally I dislike having to mount an entire
> drive just to do a file restore (not sure if it's all that much faster
> than restoring from tape--I guess it depends on a variety of factors).
>
> But on OES, yes, it's a rather nasty nightmare, IMO, compared to how MS
> handles it.


I'll take the advantages of NSS, *especially* it's completely
transparent and consistent naming of pools and volumes over windows
drive mapping nightmare everyday, thanks. 😉

Also, try to do this with dynmaic drives, or DFS junctions, or hardlinks
pointing to the drive in question in place with Windows.

The chances you toast all your data with windows might be slimmer, but
they *do* exist too. It's simply a bad idea to attach a 100% clone of a
drive to the same OS that holds the master.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
Untitled Document


Those nasty dynamic drives (haha). But good to know about the DFS stuff (my only experience has been with Novell's DFS, not the Windows one).
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spgsitsupport Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

I think dynamic drives etc are of no importance with mostly everything being virtualized & on SAN.
DFS on Windows works fine 9and I am not Microsoft fan by any means)

Sadly life in Windows world is just getting easier, while in Novell world all seems to be a problem
Just an observation, you might see it differently

Seb
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

spgsitsupport;2183803 wrote:
Sadly life in Windows world is just getting easier, while in Novell world all seems to be a problem


We don't disagree there, ..the thing is that it's still very doable on non MS systems. You have to put more thoughts & efforts into getting where you want to be, true.

I too wish there where more vendors offering advanced options for Linux (and Novell) systems... As the IT world stands ATM, "everybody" just seems to code against MS solutions and in much lesser sense look at options for non MS products ("they" are just following the money trail).

In any case, I'm curious to see where we will be in five years and how these issues we have to deal with today look by then. Cloud (being the newest trend) and other technologies have a good chance to change that. I'm not by any means saying the Windows OS will not be densely situated or be gone into mystique... but do think things might shift enough to make those things we want now be of much lesser importance then.

Anyway... bringing it back to what faces us now, trying to get solutions (+ sharing views how to provide/or one looks at the needed solutions, with Novell as well as vendors we deal with) seems like a better way to use up energy.

I'd suggest to try escalating the issues to any Novell (and other vendors) channels you have access to.

-Willem
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

Sebastian,
Just a couple of questions -
1. Are you using the ESXi5 Snapshot feature?
2. Or the Novell SnapShot feature?
Depending on which is used - one is easier than the other of course – least likely to cause issue or problems is the Novell SnapShots – you can dismount a Volume and use the Snapshot to test and or troubleshoot issue with NSS, eDirectory and other Object associated with the Volume. - - - Let’s say you want to try out another component of NetWare (say NetStorage) – you create a “Snap” of the Volume/Pool take the original offline nad mount your “Snap” to test/use with – if anything goes wrong or you don’t like the functionality of NetStorage – simply dismount the “Snap” and mount the original Volume. The caveat to this is if any Files or creation of them were change by other Users, those changes would not be reflected in the original Volume being mounted back. - - please try this in a test environment and become comfortable with it before exercising it in a production one

Leroy Joseph
Visual Click Software
(eDirectory Management and Reporting)
eDirectory Management | DSRAZOR for eDirectory
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spgsitsupport Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

None of the above, I was considering SAN native snapshot

Seb
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will74103 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: SAN snapshot & NSS volumes

Massimo,

What about an OES11 Cluster. If I take a SAN snap of VolumeA and it is running on ServerA in the cluster, can I mount the snap to another server in the cluster? Or will it still be a problem because of the cluster?
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