Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.0

We've recently migrated from an old AppleShare server to our organization's Novell Netware 6.5
environment. We're using AFP via NFA to connect to the servers, but we're getting about 1/3 of
the response time as the Windows users in our area.

We've seen minor improvements in speed by editing /etc/hosts to include our DNS addresses,
but not enough to unfrustrate our users.

Does anybody have any experience with this? We do have Active Directory configured for
authentication to the machines, but haven't noticed a speed difference whether it is configured or
not.

Environment: Netware 6.5, PowerMac G5s, OS X 10.3.9
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.0

You say NW 6.0 in your title but 6.5 in your text, which is it? It makes
quite a difference.

What exactly is slow? Copying files up, down, or both? Logging in?
Printing? Is is always the same or intermittent? Same for all Mac users?

If it is 6.5, you should have nw65sp3, nw65os3a, n65nss3a, and
65afp239.exe installed.
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

Sorry... Netware 6.5. Copying files up and down are fine. Opening files from the server is where
we see the worst problem (three times slower than a PC on the same files). We use desktop
publishing programs extensively, so when a document has linked files on the server, it can take
up to a minute to open a 5 MB file.

> You say NW 6.0 in your title but 6.5 in your text, which is it? It makes
> quite a difference.
>
> What exactly is slow? Copying files up, down, or both? Logging in?
> Printing? Is is always the same or intermittent? Same for all Mac users?
>
> If it is 6.5, you should have nw65sp3, nw65os3a, n65nss3a, and
> 65afp239.exe installed.
> --
> Andrew C Taubman
> Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> http://support.novell.com/forums
> (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
>
> Opinions expressed above are not
> necessarily those of Novell Inc.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

>Copying files up and down are fine. Opening files from the server is
where we see the worst problem

I don't understand how this can be, as copying a file from the server to
a Mac is identical to opening it on the Mac from the server's POV. Are
you sure of this?

Can you confirm those patches I listed are all installed?
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

Positive... copying files to and from the server is fine (4 seconds for 21MB). However, opening a
64K PDF file takes about 9 seconds, compared to 2-3 seconds locally.

I asked our network staff about the patches. Not all of the patches are installed and they need to
look at the effect the patches will have on our other 1,000 users before implementing the
changes.

> >Copying files up and down are fine. Opening files from the server is

> where we see the worst problem
>
> I don't understand how this can be, as copying a file from the server to
> a Mac is identical to opening it on the Mac from the server's POV. Are
> you sure of this?
>
> Can you confirm those patches I listed are all installed?
> --
> Andrew C Taubman
> Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> http://support.novell.com/forums
> (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
>
> Opinions expressed above are not
> necessarily those of Novell Inc.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

It also seems to get slower by the day. A periodic restart of the AFP service seems to speed it up
for a couple days. Is there a caching issue? I'm not up on the inner workings of the service.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

We're really going to have to get you to apply all those updates I
mentioned before we can take it any further.
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

I'll wait to hear from my network folks before posting again.

As a side note, our network staff did notice a lot of IPv6 packets coming from our Macs. We'll
turn that off today and see if it speeds things up.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

I am seeing what seems to be a very similar issue and am trying to figure
it out right now. It seems that writes to the server are taking place at
normal speed, but reads are going very slow.
I am typically seeing reads going at about an average of 512k every 2-3
seconds, as apposed to a write which is going at about 7-9 megabytes a
second. This is from doing regular file copies.

I currently have my Netware 6.5 boxes patched to the following:
Service Pack 3
NSS 3a (As I understand it, this includes 65afp239)
Server.exe 3a
TCP Update 6.59j
HP Driver Service Pack 7.3a

I have tested the issue from several different OS X boxes, including:
OS X 10.3.5
OS X 10.3.9
OS X 10.4.2

I am seeing this problem across all of my 20 or so Netware boxes.

Thanks for any help with this,
Jonathan

> Positive... copying files to and from the server is fine (4 seconds for

21MB). However, opening a
> 64K PDF file takes about 9 seconds, compared to 2-3 seconds locally.
>
> I asked our network staff about the patches. Not all of the patches are

installed and they need to
> look at the effect the patches will have on our other 1,000 users before

implementing the
> changes.
>
> > >Copying files up and down are fine. Opening files from the server is

> > where we see the worst problem
> >
> > I don't understand how this can be, as copying a file from the server to
> > a Mac is identical to opening it on the Mac from the server's POV. Are
> > you sure of this?
> >
> > Can you confirm those patches I listed are all installed?
> > --
> > Andrew C Taubman
> > Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> > http://support.novell.com/forums
> > (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
> >
> > Opinions expressed above are not
> > necessarily those of Novell Inc.

>


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

If you do the same read twice in a row, is the second one fast? If so
it's probably a server disk subsystem problem as it will be coming from
cache the second time. If not then it's likely a comms issue; as a start
make sure the server NIC and the port its plugged into are set to
Autonegotiate, not hard-set to anything.

BTW is this true for client32 and CIFS users too, or just Macs?
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

Thanks for the follow up Andrew.

No, subsequent reads of the same data do not have any speed difference.
And no, performance is normal for client32. It seems to be just AFP that
is having problems. I will give CIFS and NFS a try and let you know how
the test goes (we dont use them in our environment normally).

I did some more investigating on this problem yesterday. To me, the
problem had been screaming duplex mismatch... this turned out to be wrong,
but it did lead me down the right road.
It appears that with my servers (all HP DL380s), when they run at 1000mb
Full Duplex, and my clients are at 100mb Full Duplex, AFP connections go
extremely slow, while client32 does just fine. If I set the server and
switch (Cisco 6500) to 100mb FD, then AFP seems to perform just fine,
albiet at 100mb speeds. The really odd point here is that it seems to be
just AFP that has problems when the server is at 1000mb FD, as client32
does just fine. I have triple confirmed that there are not any duplex or
speed mismatches on the switch and server when connected at 1000mb FD (and
if there was, it wouldnt be just AFP that would be suffering performance
problems). I have tried multiple combinations of hard setting duplex and
speed, and using regular autonegotiation. Another interesting point, is
that if I connect to the server from a client running at 1000mb FD, then
AFP speed is normal. It almost seems like the speed isnt properly ramping
up or down appropriately.

I downloaded the latest Broadcom NIC drivers and used them instead of the
HP drivers, but the problem still persists.
I hope to connect to one of my servers today with a cross-over cable
between it and a client... just to completely rule out my network... but
again, if it was the network, I dont see how it would be just AFP that was
affected.

> If you do the same read twice in a row, is the second one fast? If so
> it's probably a server disk subsystem problem as it will be coming from
> cache the second time. If not then it's likely a comms issue; as a start
> make sure the server NIC and the port its plugged into are set to
> Autonegotiate, not hard-set to anything.
>
> BTW is this true for client32 and CIFS users too, or just Macs?
> --
> Andrew C Taubman
> Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> http://support.novell.com/forums
> (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
>
> Opinions expressed above are not
> necessarily those of Novell Inc.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

The caching issue is what we're experiencing. I've sent this post to our network staff. We're
restarting AFP a couple times a week now.

> If you do the same read twice in a row, is the second one fast? If so
> it's probably a server disk subsystem problem as it will be coming from
> cache the second time. If not then it's likely a comms issue; as a start
> make sure the server NIC and the port its plugged into are set to
> Autonegotiate, not hard-set to anything.
>
> BTW is this true for client32 and CIFS users too, or just Macs?
> --
> Andrew C Taubman
> Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> http://support.novell.com/forums
> (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
>
> Opinions expressed above are not
> necessarily those of Novell Inc.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

>my clients are at 100mb Full Duplex,

Are they hard-set to 100FD? If so try switching to Autoneg, and make
sure the switch ports they are plugged into are also Auto; then confirm
both sides have successfully negotiated to 100FD.
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

Yes, both the switch and the clients are set to auto-negotiate. I have
tried many variations of auto-negotiation and hard setting the speed and
duplex on the servers, clients, and switches.

I did confirm yesterday evening that CIFS/SMB transfers from a Mac OS X
client worked at normal speed. While an AFP transfer on the same client
from the same server of the same file goes at an extremely slow rate.
I havent tried NFS yet, but at this point I dont really think there is a
need to.

Since it is just AFP that is misbehaving, I think we can rule out that the
problem is stemming from a speed or duplex mismatch.


> >my clients are at 100mb Full Duplex,

>
> Are they hard-set to 100FD? If so try switching to Autoneg, and make
> sure the switch ports they are plugged into are also Auto; then confirm
> both sides have successfully negotiated to 100FD.
> --
> Andrew C Taubman
> Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
> http://support.novell.com/forums
> (Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)
>
> Opinions expressed above are not
> necessarily those of Novell Inc.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Slow AFP OS 10.3.9 and Netware 6.5

>Since it is just AFP that is misbehaving, I think we can rule out that
the problem is stemming from a speed or duplex mismatch.

Not at all. Duplex mismatches affect IP far more than they do IPX, for
instance. One more test to confirm this - try hard-setting everything
between one Mac client and the server at 100HD (not FD). So that would
be the server nic, the port its plugged into, the Mac client, and the
port its plugged into. If that makes no difference, then I'll concede
duplexing is not the problem 🙂

BTW are there any Mac OS updates and nic driver updates available for
the macs?
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
(Sorry, support is not provided via e-mail)

Opinions expressed above are not
necessarily those of Novell Inc.
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