Anonymous_User Absent Member.
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iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a few
emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
NetWare kernel
(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the very
last bullet at the bottom of the page).

Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the page
shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there. Novell
has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was scheduled
for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page 14).
As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So
will it make it into OES SP2?

If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would like to
someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement

I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare kernel)
register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line Manager
(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html). The
topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server." That
would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono support
for NetWare.





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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a...SP5 maybe?

Jon,

I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
all.

I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?

Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
NetWare is so strong?

Victor


Jon Strickland wrote:
> I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
> time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a few
> emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
> they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
> NetWare kernel
> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
> Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
> NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
> http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the very
> last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>
> Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
> http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the page
> shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there. Novell
> has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was scheduled
> for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page 14).
> As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So
> will it make it into OES SP2?
>
> If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would like to
> someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
> kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>
> I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare kernel)
> register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line Manager
> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html). The
> topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server." That
> would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono support
> for NetWare.
>
>
>
>
>

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

I don't want to speak for Jon, but my guess is the lack of experience
with Linux probably plays a role in the requests to have iFolder 3 on
Netware.

Having said that I have deployed iFolder 3.1 on OES Linux and am quite
happy. But, I have been running Linux right alongside my Netware servers
for over 5 years...

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:39:56 +0000, Victor Billings wrote:

> Jon,
>
> I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear that
> I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on Netware or
> any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it all.
>
> I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and Novell
> isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
> the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>
> Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
> bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
> some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
> NetWare is so strong?
>
> Victor
>
>
> Jon Strickland wrote:
>> I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
>> time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a
>> few emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held
>> that they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the
>> OES NetWare kernel
>> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
>> Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
>> NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>> http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
>> very last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>
>> Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>> http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
>> page shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.
>> Novell has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare
>> was scheduled for OES SP1
>> http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page 14). As we
>> all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So will
>> it make it into OES SP2?
>>
>> If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would
>> like to someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES
>> (NetWare kernel) you need to tell Novell
>> http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>
>> I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
>> kernel) register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product
>> Line Manager
>> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
>> The topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server."
>> That would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono
>> support for NetWare.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

I think Novell has abandoned Netware (fools) and thats why we have a
statement
that says "iFolder is NOT planned for Netware"

You won't see anything NEW on Netware as its NOW on "Maintenance"
ie. waiting for god like the people in old folks home!

Now that MS has stuck a claim on 64bit ONLY bandwaggon - Netware will die
early
Novell is powerless to do anything about it

I have used Linux for last 3 years.

Linux is NOT a patch on Netware.
Unlike Netware its too big, very rough around edges [compare Win98 with XP
its that far apart]

Much as I like Linux - Novell is betting on the WRONG horse!




"Victor Billings" <vbillings@novell.com> wrote in message
news:034kf.1351$ME5.1305@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Jon,
>
> I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
> that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
> Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
> all.
>
> I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
> Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
> the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>
> Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
> bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
> some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
> NetWare is so strong?
>
> Victor
>
>
> Jon Strickland wrote:
> > I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
> > time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a

few
> > emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
> > they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
> > NetWare kernel
> >

(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.h
tml).
> > Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
> > NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
> > http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the

very
> > last bullet at the bottom of the page).
> >
> > Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
> > http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the

page
> > shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.

Novell
> > has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was

scheduled
> > for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page

14).
> > As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1.

So
> > will it make it into OES SP2?
> >
> > If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would

like to
> > someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
> > kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
> >
> > I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare

kernel)
> > register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line

Manager
> > (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).

The
> > topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server."

That
> > would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono

support
> > for NetWare.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a...SP5 maybe?

Chuck,

I guess that I can see that. I remember when I first switched to linux
and had a kernel panic due to a power failure and using ext2. That was
tough for me to get around. Now that I have worked with NetWare and
Linux side by side for years, I too feel comfortable around both.

I know that if this is the only problem, Novell is attempting to give an
olive branch. They are offering a free training course to NetWare admins
looking to leverage skills on OES.

http://www.novell.com/training/promotions/netwaretolinux/description.html

I haven't taken the course, but I thought the offer was cool if nothing
else.

Victor


Chuck Stuettgen wrote:
> I don't want to speak for Jon, but my guess is the lack of experience
> with Linux probably plays a role in the requests to have iFolder 3 on
> Netware.
>
> Having said that I have deployed iFolder 3.1 on OES Linux and am quite
> happy. But, I have been running Linux right alongside my Netware servers
> for over 5 years...
>
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:39:56 +0000, Victor Billings wrote:
>
>
>>Jon,
>>
>>I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear that
>>I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on Netware or
>>any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it all.
>>
>>I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and Novell
>>isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
>> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
>>the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>>
>>Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
>>bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
>>some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
>>NetWare is so strong?
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>Jon Strickland wrote:
>>
>>>I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
>>>time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a
>>>few emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held
>>>that they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the
>>>OES NetWare kernel
>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
>>>Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
>>>NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>>>http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
>>>very last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>>
>>>Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>>>http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
>>>page shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.
>>> Novell has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare
>>>was scheduled for OES SP1
>>>http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page 14). As we
>>>all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So will
>>>it make it into OES SP2?
>>>
>>>If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would
>>>like to someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES
>>>(NetWare kernel) you need to tell Novell
>>>http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>>
>>>I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
>>>kernel) register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product
>>>Line Manager
>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
>>>The topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server."
>>>That would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono
>>>support for NetWare.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>
>

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a...SP5 maybe?

Chris,

I don't know that I would say that Novell has abandoned NetWare. That
seems really strong. Sort of like dumping a kitten out of your car door.
Thats what I think of when I hear the word abandon. Everything that I
hear from the Corporate people seems to reflect that they still think
highly of NetWare.

Certainly the 64 bit hardware move will shake things up since I don't
know of any effort on Novell's part for a 64 bit port, but I always
figured that is what SLES was for.

Is there something specific about the iFolder 3 on Linux experience that
you feel would be improved if it was on NetWare? You mention that
Linux is too big, do you mean that you don't like the performance of
iFolder 3 on SLES, or do you mean that there are too many things
installed by default with OES on SLES?

I'm just trying to understand the specific things that people like about
NetWare so that I can help push iFolder 3 along in the right direction.
The rough edges that you mention as they specifically relate to iFolder
3 are exactly what I am looking for.

Victor


Chris wrote:
> I think Novell has abandoned Netware (fools) and thats why we have a
> statement
> that says "iFolder is NOT planned for Netware"
>
> You won't see anything NEW on Netware as its NOW on "Maintenance"
> ie. waiting for god like the people in old folks home!
>
> Now that MS has stuck a claim on 64bit ONLY bandwaggon - Netware will die
> early
> Novell is powerless to do anything about it
>
> I have used Linux for last 3 years.
>
> Linux is NOT a patch on Netware.
> Unlike Netware its too big, very rough around edges [compare Win98 with XP
> its that far apart]
>
> Much as I like Linux - Novell is betting on the WRONG horse!
>
>
>
>
> "Victor Billings" <vbillings@novell.com> wrote in message
> news:034kf.1351$ME5.1305@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
>
>>Jon,
>>
>>I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
>>that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
>>Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
>>all.
>>
>>I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
>>Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
>> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
>>the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>>
>>Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
>>bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
>>some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
>>NetWare is so strong?
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>Jon Strickland wrote:
>>
>>>I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
>>>time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a

>
> few
>
>>>emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
>>>they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
>>>NetWare kernel
>>>

>
> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.h
> tml).
>
>>>Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
>>>NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>>>http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the

>
> very
>
>>>last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>>
>>>Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>>>http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the

>
> page
>
>>>shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.

>
> Novell
>
>>>has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was

>
> scheduled
>
>>>for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page

>
> 14).
>
>>>As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1.

>
> So
>
>>>will it make it into OES SP2?
>>>
>>>If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would

>
> like to
>
>>>someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
>>>kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>>
>>>I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare

>
> kernel)
>
>>>register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line

>
> Manager
>
>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).

>
> The
>
>>>topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server."

>
> That
>
>>>would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono

>
> support
>
>>>for NetWare.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>
>
>

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:08:52 +0000, Victor Billings wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> I guess that I can see that. I remember when I first switched to linux and
> had a kernel panic due to a power failure and using ext2. That was tough
> for me to get around.


Oh Man, I remember the panic I felt the first time that happened to me,
also due to a power outage and not having a UPS on my home server. Took
me two hours to figure out the syntax for fsck and for it to finish
running on two 40GB drives that were nearly full. I went out and bought a
UPS the next day. I sure was happy when EXT3 came out.

> Now that I have worked with NetWare and Linux side
> by side for years, I too feel comfortable around both.
>
> I know that if this is the only problem, Novell is attempting to give an
> olive branch. They are offering a free training course to NetWare admins
> looking to leverage skills on OES.
>
> http://www.novell.com/training/promotions/netwaretolinux/description.html
>


Cool didn't know about this. BTW here is the link to actual course for
those that are interested.

http://www.novell.com/training/promotions/netwaretolinux/modules.html





> I haven't taken the course, but I thought the offer was cool if nothing
> else.
>
> Victor
>
>
> Chuck Stuettgen wrote:
>> I don't want to speak for Jon, but my guess is the lack of experience
>> with Linux probably plays a role in the requests to have iFolder 3 on
>> Netware.
>>
>> Having said that I have deployed iFolder 3.1 on OES Linux and am quite
>> happy. But, I have been running Linux right alongside my Netware
>> servers for over 5 years...
>>
>> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:39:56 +0000, Victor Billings wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jon,
>>>
>>>I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
>>>that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
>>>Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
>>>all.
>>>
>>>I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
>>>Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though
>>>about
>>> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something
>>> that
>>>the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>>>
>>>Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
>>>bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
>>>some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
>>>NetWare is so strong?
>>>
>>>Victor
>>>
>>>
>>>Jon Strickland wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite
>>>>some time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and
>>>>sending a few emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has
>>>>always held that they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x
>>>>will run on the OES NetWare kernel
>>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
>>>>Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono
>>>>for NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>>>>http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
>>>>very last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>>>
>>>>Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>>>>http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
>>>>page shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now
>>>>there.
>>>> Novell has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare
>>>>was scheduled for OES SP1
>>>>http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page 14). As we
>>>>all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So
>>>>will it make it into OES SP2?
>>>>
>>>>If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would
>>>>like to someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running
>>>>OES (NetWare kernel) you need to tell Novell
>>>>http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>>>
>>>>I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
>>>>kernel) register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES
>>>>Product Line Manager
>>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
>>>>The topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise
>>>>Server." That would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the
>>>>status of Mono support for NetWare.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

>>


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

Victor,

Lack of Linux experience for some customers plays a role, but doesn't budget
play a part too? Some customers have these nice robust NetWare servers that
are running 2.1.x, but in order to get to 3.x they have to build new
servers. For some that's something of an obstacle. So the ability to run
iFolder 2.1.x and 3.x servers parallel on NetWare to facilitate an upgrade
without the need to purchase new hardware would be helpful. Since the 3.x
documentation states "iFolder 3.x servers can coexist with an iFolder 2.1x
server on an OES Linux computer" it might be safe to assume the same would
hold true of an OES NetWare computer IF iFolder 3.x supported it.

iFolder 3.1 more palatable on OES on SLES? Well iFolder 3.0 didn't support
NSS, but 3.1 does, so that's good. OES on SLES wasn't completely where it
needed to be with regards to NCP and NSS but then OES SP1 was released and
seems to have addressed those issues, so that's good.

An automated migration path would be a plus. The current 3.x Administration
guide documentation on novell.com states "There is no migration path between
Novell iFolder 2.1x and Novell iFolder 3.0. There is no migration of
configuration, policies, user information, and iFolder data on the server."
The customer has to build a new 3.x server on hardware and then hope the
user can correctly copy their data to the new location for the 3.x client
because the documentation goes on to state.... "There is no automatic
upgrade or migration from Novell iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for
Novell iFolder 3.0. Each user can manually copy some or all of the files in
the iFolder 2.1x directory to one or more iFolders for synchronization by an
iFolder 3.0 enterprise server." End users will be copying files from the
location they've been always told to save to, to a new location because of
the upgrade process, and then that will be where they always need to save to
going forward.

That's where an automated upgrade process on the client side might come in
handy. The iFolder User Guide for Novell iFolder 3.x documentation on
novell.com states "There is no automatic upgrade or migration from Novell
iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for Novell iFolder 3.x. You can manually
copy some or all of the files in your iFolder 2.1x directory to one or more
iFolders for synchronization by an iFolder 3.x enterprise server." One of
the nice things about iFolder was that end users didn't have to think about
syncing their data it just happened. Now we as administrators are going to
have to ask end user to manually copy their files so they can be upgraded to
a new iFolder client/server solution. Uh huh...

Again, OES was supposed to be about choice of kernel for the customer. Some
customers have chosen to run OES on the NetWare kernel. iFolder running
only on OES on SLES negates that choice. There are customers that have run
NetWare for years, some for decades, and offering free training still isn't
going to convince all of them that OES Linux runs any better than OES
NetWare when it comes to the functionality they need from OES.

Jon




"Victor Billings" <vbillings@novell.com> wrote in message
news:034kf.1351$ME5.1305@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Jon,
>
> I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
> that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
> Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
> all.
>
> I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
> Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
> what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
> the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>
> Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
> bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
> some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
> NetWare is so strong?
>
> Victor
>
>
> Jon Strickland wrote:
>> I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
>> time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a
>> few
>> emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
>> they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
>> NetWare kernel
>> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
>> Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
>> NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>> http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
>> very
>> last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>
>> Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>> http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
>> page
>> shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.
>> Novell
>> has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was
>> scheduled
>> for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page
>> 14).
>> As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So
>> will it make it into OES SP2?
>>
>> If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would like
>> to
>> someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
>> kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>
>> I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
>> kernel)
>> register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line
>> Manager
>> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
>> The
>> topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server." That
>> would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono
>> support
>> for NetWare.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>



0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

Victor Billings,
> Is there something specific about the iFolder 3 on Linux experience that
> you feel would be improved if it was on NetWare?
>

Just let me add some comments: I have clients that run solely on NetWare
and I have clients that have the odd Windows server, because they have to.
Adding a third type of server will be seen as a problem. For big clients,
politics play in as well, ie you cannot just bring in a new OS.

- Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
NSC Volunteer Sysop
Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2195

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

Anders Gustafsson wrote:

> Victor Billings,
>> Is there something specific about the iFolder 3 on Linux experience that
>> you feel would be improved if it was on NetWare?
>>

> Just let me add some comments: I have clients that run solely on NetWare
> and I have clients that have the odd Windows server, because they have to.
> Adding a third type of server will be seen as a problem. For big clients,
> politics play in as well, ie you cannot just bring in a new OS.
>


Would turning iFolder into an appliance help, much like Novell Branch
Office? That should make the whole OS-issue into a .. er.. non-issue,
methinks. I could certainly sell such a 'device' to my customers. Provided
it could hook up to Active Directory trees as well.

--
Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,

Bert Plat / www.bertplat.nl
It wasn't that she had a rose in her teeth, exactly. It was more like
the rose and the teeth were in the same glass.
0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a...SP5 maybe?

Jon,

Those are some good issues that I know that the iFolder 3 team has
discussed at length. While many of them are not purely technical, I do
think they have merit.

For instance the concern over cost. Its true that it costs more to run
OES NetWare and OES SLES side by side if you could have gotten the same
task done with one piece of hardware.

It's also true that NSS/NCP had some serious issues in the first release
of OES. I can understand some lingering concern about their viability,
although as you say they appear to be resolved at this point.

I do think that the criticism of the lack of a client side migration
tool is spot on though. That is the sort of information that I was
looking for. Clearly it is a purely technical consideration that Novell
hasn't yet chosen to address. Although... there is no migration tool for
NetWare or SLES users, so this is more of a criticism of the
iFolder3/Novell rather than a weakness of SLES as a platform.

Lastly the concern over comfort on NetWare again. I also agree that even
if it is a nice gesture, its true that a single training course cannot
replace years of understanding gained through experience on NetWare.

Thanks for helping me understand where you are coming from. As a fan of
Linux/SLES, I am sometimes blinded by the coolness of it all becoming so
mainstream.


Victor


Jon Strickland wrote:
> Victor,
>
> Lack of Linux experience for some customers plays a role, but doesn't budget
> play a part too? Some customers have these nice robust NetWare servers that
> are running 2.1.x, but in order to get to 3.x they have to build new
> servers. For some that's something of an obstacle. So the ability to run
> iFolder 2.1.x and 3.x servers parallel on NetWare to facilitate an upgrade
> without the need to purchase new hardware would be helpful. Since the 3.x
> documentation states "iFolder 3.x servers can coexist with an iFolder 2.1x
> server on an OES Linux computer" it might be safe to assume the same would
> hold true of an OES NetWare computer IF iFolder 3.x supported it.
>
> iFolder 3.1 more palatable on OES on SLES? Well iFolder 3.0 didn't support
> NSS, but 3.1 does, so that's good. OES on SLES wasn't completely where it
> needed to be with regards to NCP and NSS but then OES SP1 was released and
> seems to have addressed those issues, so that's good.
>
> An automated migration path would be a plus. The current 3.x Administration
> guide documentation on novell.com states "There is no migration path between
> Novell iFolder 2.1x and Novell iFolder 3.0. There is no migration of
> configuration, policies, user information, and iFolder data on the server."
> The customer has to build a new 3.x server on hardware and then hope the
> user can correctly copy their data to the new location for the 3.x client
> because the documentation goes on to state.... "There is no automatic
> upgrade or migration from Novell iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for
> Novell iFolder 3.0. Each user can manually copy some or all of the files in
> the iFolder 2.1x directory to one or more iFolders for synchronization by an
> iFolder 3.0 enterprise server." End users will be copying files from the
> location they've been always told to save to, to a new location because of
> the upgrade process, and then that will be where they always need to save to
> going forward.
>
> That's where an automated upgrade process on the client side might come in
> handy. The iFolder User Guide for Novell iFolder 3.x documentation on
> novell.com states "There is no automatic upgrade or migration from Novell
> iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for Novell iFolder 3.x. You can manually
> copy some or all of the files in your iFolder 2.1x directory to one or more
> iFolders for synchronization by an iFolder 3.x enterprise server." One of
> the nice things about iFolder was that end users didn't have to think about
> syncing their data it just happened. Now we as administrators are going to
> have to ask end user to manually copy their files so they can be upgraded to
> a new iFolder client/server solution. Uh huh...
>
> Again, OES was supposed to be about choice of kernel for the customer. Some
> customers have chosen to run OES on the NetWare kernel. iFolder running
> only on OES on SLES negates that choice. There are customers that have run
> NetWare for years, some for decades, and offering free training still isn't
> going to convince all of them that OES Linux runs any better than OES
> NetWare when it comes to the functionality they need from OES.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> "Victor Billings" <vbillings@novell.com> wrote in message
> news:034kf.1351$ME5.1305@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
>
>>Jon,
>>
>>I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
>>that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
>>Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
>>all.
>>
>>I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
>>Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
>>what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
>>the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
>>
>>Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
>>bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
>>some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
>>NetWare is so strong?
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>Jon Strickland wrote:
>>
>>>I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite some
>>>time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending a
>>>few
>>>emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held that
>>>they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
>>>NetWare kernel
>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.html).
>>>Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono for
>>>NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
>>>http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
>>>very
>>>last bullet at the bottom of the page).
>>>
>>>Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
>>>http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
>>>page
>>>shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.
>>>Novell
>>>has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was
>>>scheduled
>>>for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page
>>>14).
>>>As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1. So
>>>will it make it into OES SP2?
>>>
>>>If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would like
>>>to
>>>someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES (NetWare
>>>kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>>
>>>I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
>>>kernel)
>>>register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line
>>>Manager
>>>(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
>>>The
>>>topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server." That
>>>would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono
>>>support
>>>for NetWare.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>
>
>

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

YES

I don't want to SEE Linux
Lots of Firewall and other appliance do it and do it well to hide the OS.

AD yes - the sheer mention of eDirectory or NOVELL put fear of GOD in
MANY of the MS shops.

Novell would do well to "hide eDirectory" or better yet work directly with
AD

YES - I know e Directory is better but...

"Bert Plat" <bert@my-real-box.com> wrote in message
news:_Ydlf.2996$ME5.2859@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Anders Gustafsson wrote:
>
> > Victor Billings,
> >> Is there something specific about the iFolder 3 on Linux experience

that
> >> you feel would be improved if it was on NetWare?
> >>

> > Just let me add some comments: I have clients that run solely on NetWare
> > and I have clients that have the odd Windows server, because they have

to.
> > Adding a third type of server will be seen as a problem. For big

clients,
> > politics play in as well, ie you cannot just bring in a new OS.
> >

>
> Would turning iFolder into an appliance help, much like Novell Branch
> Office? That should make the whole OS-issue into a .. er.. non-issue,
> methinks. I could certainly sell such a 'device' to my customers. Provided
> it could hook up to Active Directory trees as well.
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
>
> Bert Plat / www.bertplat.nl
> It wasn't that she had a rose in her teeth, exactly. It was more like
> the rose and the teeth were in the same glass.



0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

Excellent point - I don't think Novell understands this.

Appliance suggestion is a good idea.

I know several client who have expressed inetrest in GW but the need for
eDirectory
kills the conversation.

Novell is seen to be Anti-MS - well it is 🙂

Novell dosen't communicate as result anyone UNDER 40 does not even know who
Novell is !!

Take UK - Novell dosen't do ANYTHING - Marketting/Training, Partner/Customer
events outside of
BRACKNELL -where the fxxk is Bracknell!!

oh well

"Anders Gustafsson" <dalton@nomail.to.me> wrote in message
news:VA.000013aa.05909e8a@nomail.to.me...
> Victor Billings,
> > Is there something specific about the iFolder 3 on Linux experience that
> > you feel would be improved if it was on NetWare?
> >

> Just let me add some comments: I have clients that run solely on NetWare
> and I have clients that have the odd Windows server, because they have to.
> Adding a third type of server will be seen as a problem. For big clients,
> politics play in as well, ie you cannot just bring in a new OS.
>
> - Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
> NSC Volunteer Sysop
> Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)
>
> Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
> Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
> http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>
> Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2195
>



0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

Chris,
> BRACKNELL -where the fxxk is Bracknell!!
>

West out of London..

- Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
NSC Volunteer Sysop
Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2195

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: iFolder 3.x for OES (NetWare kernel) aka NetWare 6.5 SP4a... SP5 maybe?

One of the things poeple like about MS stuff is "Wizzards" and things that -
making things "EASY"
(or appearing to be even if it dosen't work) is something Users and Admins
have come to EXPECT
from MS and rightly so by OTHERS like Novell.

Its ALL about Hearts and Minds

People under 40 Expect to be able to stick a CD in a machine and an click
NEXT or Cancel
Heck - so do I and I'm well above 40
I know what a Command prompt is - but I will use it because I want to - NOT
because I have to

The Linux neards haven't quite grasped that - if they can't make it work
like that "get out of the kitchen"
come back when you can or don't come back!

NW6.5 / Novell Small Business Server is really EASY to setup by comparison
Linux is NOT.




"Jon Strickland" <jstrickland@trianglenug.org> wrote in message
news:YD8lf.2847$ME5.2095@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Victor,
>
> Lack of Linux experience for some customers plays a role, but doesn't

budget
> play a part too? Some customers have these nice robust NetWare servers

that
> are running 2.1.x, but in order to get to 3.x they have to build new
> servers. For some that's something of an obstacle. So the ability to run
> iFolder 2.1.x and 3.x servers parallel on NetWare to facilitate an upgrade
> without the need to purchase new hardware would be helpful. Since the 3.x
> documentation states "iFolder 3.x servers can coexist with an iFolder 2.1x
> server on an OES Linux computer" it might be safe to assume the same would
> hold true of an OES NetWare computer IF iFolder 3.x supported it.
>
> iFolder 3.1 more palatable on OES on SLES? Well iFolder 3.0 didn't

support
> NSS, but 3.1 does, so that's good. OES on SLES wasn't completely where it
> needed to be with regards to NCP and NSS but then OES SP1 was released and
> seems to have addressed those issues, so that's good.
>
> An automated migration path would be a plus. The current 3.x

Administration
> guide documentation on novell.com states "There is no migration path

between
> Novell iFolder 2.1x and Novell iFolder 3.0. There is no migration of
> configuration, policies, user information, and iFolder data on the

server."
> The customer has to build a new 3.x server on hardware and then hope the
> user can correctly copy their data to the new location for the 3.x client
> because the documentation goes on to state.... "There is no automatic
> upgrade or migration from Novell iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for
> Novell iFolder 3.0. Each user can manually copy some or all of the files

in
> the iFolder 2.1x directory to one or more iFolders for synchronization by

an
> iFolder 3.0 enterprise server." End users will be copying files from the
> location they've been always told to save to, to a new location because of
> the upgrade process, and then that will be where they always need to save

to
> going forward.
>
> That's where an automated upgrade process on the client side might come in
> handy. The iFolder User Guide for Novell iFolder 3.x documentation on
> novell.com states "There is no automatic upgrade or migration from Novell
> iFolder 2.1x to the iFolder client for Novell iFolder 3.x. You can

manually
> copy some or all of the files in your iFolder 2.1x directory to one or

more
> iFolders for synchronization by an iFolder 3.x enterprise server." One of
> the nice things about iFolder was that end users didn't have to think

about
> syncing their data it just happened. Now we as administrators are going

to
> have to ask end user to manually copy their files so they can be upgraded

to
> a new iFolder client/server solution. Uh huh...
>
> Again, OES was supposed to be about choice of kernel for the customer.

Some
> customers have chosen to run OES on the NetWare kernel. iFolder running
> only on OES on SLES negates that choice. There are customers that have

run
> NetWare for years, some for decades, and offering free training still

isn't
> going to convince all of them that OES Linux runs any better than OES
> NetWare when it comes to the functionality they need from OES.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> "Victor Billings" <vbillings@novell.com> wrote in message
> news:034kf.1351$ME5.1305@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> > Jon,
> >
> > I appreciate your thoughtful post on the subject. I want to be clear
> > that I have no power to affect the final outcome of mono's status on
> > Netware or any platform, but I am interested in the reasoning behind it
> > all.
> >
> > I think that the NetWare kernel is of course very high quality, and
> > Novell isn't going to abandon it anytime soon. I am curious though about
> > what it is that makes OES on SLES insufficient. Is there something that
> > the iFolder 3 team could do to make the product more palatable on SLES?
> >
> > Being involved with iFolder 3 means that I work on OES on SLES quite a
> > bit. I find that it is quite good in what it does as a server. Is there
> > some weakness in the platform that I am missing or is it simply that
> > NetWare is so strong?
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >
> > Jon Strickland wrote:
> >> I've been following the status of iFolder 3.x for NetWare for quite

some
> >> time, even posting message in the novell.devsup.mono forum and sending

a
> >> few
> >> emails to a few product managers. The iFolder team has always held

that
> >> they need Mono ported to NetWare before iFolder 3.x will run on the OES
> >> NetWare kernel
> >>

(http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/upgradebusiness_chat2.h
tml).
> >> Supposedly the complete fork() API needed to allow the port for Mono

for
> >> NetWare is now available with OES SP1 (NetWare 6.5 SP4)
> >> http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/whatsnew.html (the
> >> very
> >> last bullet at the bottom of the page).
> >>
> >> Mono for NetWare was listed as being in the works on the Mono web site
> >> http://www.mono-project.com/Netware until Miguel de Icaza updated the
> >> page
> >> shortly after BrainShare with the short sentence that is now there.
> >> Novell
> >> has published literature that stated Mono support for NetWare was
> >> scheduled
> >> for OES SP1 http://www.novell.com/collateral/4821012/4821012.pdf (page
> >> 14).
> >> As we all know, Mono support for NetWare didn't make it into OES SP1.

So
> >> will it make it into OES SP2?
> >>
> >> If you're currently using iFolder in a NetWare environment and would

like
> >> to
> >> someday upgrade beyond 2.x and have the "choice" of running OES

(NetWare
> >> kernel) you need to tell Novell http://support.novell.com/enhancement
> >>
> >> I'd also recommend that EVERYONE using NetWare 6.5 or OES (NetWare
> >> kernel)
> >> register and attend the live chat with Rick Fowler, OES Product Line
> >> Manager
> >> (http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/oesschedule.html).
> >> The
> >> topic will be "Future Innovation of Novell Open Enterprise Server."

That
> >> would give us all a perfect chance to ask about the status of Mono
> >> support
> >> for NetWare.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>

>
>



0 Likes
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