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Re: Silence

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:24:46 GMT, "Miles58" <miles58nospam@gmail.com>
wrote:

>That's OK! I can't remember when I read Kafka last, much less which one.
>How I remember Josef K I cannot guess.For that matter I can remember reading
>Catch-22, but it was so long ago I am not sure where I was. I think I was
>in the Phillipines. I remember it was terrible hot, and someone stole my
>book.


I remember I was in grad school when I read Catch 22 in 1969. I was only a
few months out of the Army, and I marveled that there had been as much
absurdity in WWII as I had seen in Vietnam.

Donald Albury
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Re: Silence

Several years ago, I heard a radio interview with Joseph Heller, who
responded to a question about the current trend of businessmen applying
military strategy (e.g., Sun Zi, von Clausewitz, Miyamoto Musashi, etc.)
to business strategy, and if that's what the Milo Minderbinder character
was all about, and Heller emphatically replied that the book's point was
to highlight the absurdity of applying business practices to fighting a
war, and pointedly noted that the late Robert McNamara was the president
of Ford Motor Co. before becoming Secretary of Defense during the first
half of the U.S. commitment of conventional ground combat forces to the
Vietnam War. I also found out that Donald Rumsfeld was the CEO of
Searle, Inc., before becoming Secretary of Defense in 2001 which gave me
pause at the striking parallel.

Donald Albury wrote:
>
> I remember I was in grad school when I read Catch 22 in 1969. I was only a
> few months out of the Army, and I marveled that there had been as much
> absurdity in WWII as I had seen in Vietnam.
>
> Donald Albury

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Re: Silence

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:00:19 GMT, "dan c." <dytcheungDEL@hotmail.com.del>
wrote:

>Several years ago, I heard a radio interview with Joseph Heller, who
>responded to a question about the current trend of businessmen applying
>military strategy (e.g., Sun Zi, von Clausewitz, Miyamoto Musashi, etc.)
>to business strategy, and if that's what the Milo Minderbinder character
>was all about, and Heller emphatically replied that the book's point was
>to highlight the absurdity of applying business practices to fighting a
>war, and pointedly noted that the late Robert McNamara was the president
>of Ford Motor Co. before becoming Secretary of Defense during the first
>half of the U.S. commitment of conventional ground combat forces to the
>Vietnam War. I also found out that Donald Rumsfeld was the CEO of
>Searle, Inc., before becoming Secretary of Defense in 2001 which gave me
>pause at the striking parallel.


The absudities I saw there were mostly local. There was, however, the
business with the body count during the Tet offensive that I was told about
by other clerks. The units in the field were too busy during Tet to send in
their daily body counts, so Army headquarters 'estimated' body counts for
the press releases.

About once a week someone would fire a few mortars or rockets at the base.
Three was the usual limit, because they had to pick up and run before the
radar-controlled return fire started coming in on them. We would hear the
explosions, or if the rounds landed on the far side of the base, someone
might see the flashes. After 20 to 30 minutes of the following quiet, the
sirens would go off warning us to take cover.

Most of the casualties from the mortar/rocket attacks were officers
sleeping in their bunks in the BOQ. As a result, our company CO slept in
his office and the battalian chaplain slept in his.

Soldiers assigned to military intelligence had to wear civilian clothes at
all times. After it was feared that a NVA team had penetrated the base, we
had to wear our uniforms any time we were away from our company area. The
MI guys were then the only US soldiers on the base in civvies. I had to
take reenlistment papers over to the MI building because a sergeant wanted
his CO to swear him in. I saw three groups working there. There were US
soldiers in civvies, Vietnamese soldiers in regular uniform, and some
American-looking types wearing fatigue-type uniforms with no insignia or
patches other than "US" tabs on the collars. I didn't ask who they worked
for.

Donald Albury
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Re: Silence

They were probably CID if you addressed them as "Mister." At least
that's been my experience whenever we saw those guys when they traveled
on military deployment flights. IOW, EMs and NCOs in the MP Corps who
didn't have to salute officers and warrants.

Donald Albury wrote:
> ...and some American-looking types wearing fatigue-type uniforms with no insignia or
> patches other than "US" tabs on the collars. I didn't ask who they worked for.
>
> Donald Albury

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Re: Silence

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:04:15 GMT, "dan c." <dytcheungDEL@hotmail.com.del>
wrote:

>They were probably CID if you addressed them as "Mister." At least
>that's been my experience whenever we saw those guys when they traveled
>on military deployment flights. IOW, EMs and NCOs in the MP Corps who
>didn't have to salute officers and warrants.


I kinda figured they were CIA. I didn't address them. I sat there, kept my
mouth shut, and tried not to exhibit any curiousity about the place. That
last part was a real strain, as I love maps and they had all these neat
maps on the walls. 🙂

Donald Albury
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Re: Silence

Yeah, you *definitely* did not want to get those guys' "attention"
especially if it were during the time they were running "Phoenix" or
"Blue Light."

Donald Albury wrote:
>
> I kinda figured they were CIA. I didn't address them. I sat there, kept my
> mouth shut, and tried not to exhibit any curiousity about the place. That
> last part was a real strain, as I love maps and they had all these neat
> maps on the walls. 🙂
>
> Donald Albury

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Re: Silence

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:53:27 GMT, "dan c." <dytcheungDEL@hotmail.com.del>
wrote:

>Yeah, you *definitely* did not want to get those guys' "attention"
>especially if it were during the time they were running "Phoenix" or
>"Blue Light."


I didn't want anyone looking at my background. A friend of mine from high
school, who I had continued to associate with even when I was a campus cop,
was a self-proclaimed communist, and had told me I was the one who started
him down the path to political enlightment (that one floored me). Some
other people I had associated with were active in the SDS around that time,
as well.

Donald Albury
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Re: Silence

I needed as high a security clearnce as was available when I was there. I
was very much a Milo Minderbinder. I knew how to get whatever we needed and
several of my COs knew that I frequently did just that. My services were
bartered to other ship's captains on occasion so as to keep the squadron at
sea. I actually got a commendation for stealing stuff. Had I been caught
it would have meant a transfer to Kansas.

Because of the clearance mainly I had an FBI guy follow me everywhere I went
for like six weeks when they figured I was up to no good. If I went camping
back in the mountains on my time off, he went with, mustard colored
chrysler, white shirt,suit, tie and dress shoes. If I went jack rabbit
shooting in the Mojave he went with. Really hard to be inconspicuous when
you can see everything within miles of you. I lived with a bunch of
musicians who were totally freaked out at first with suit guy looking in the
windows at night. After a while when someone new would spot him they'd just
tell them "it's ok, it's just Dave's FBI guy, he/s cool".



"dan c." <dytcheungDEL@hotmail.com.del> wrote in message
news:7tGdm.1019$7G7.744@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> Several years ago, I heard a radio interview with Joseph Heller, who
> responded to a question about the current trend of businessmen applying
> military strategy (e.g., Sun Zi, von Clausewitz, Miyamoto Musashi, etc.)
> to business strategy, and if that's what the Milo Minderbinder character
> was all about, and Heller emphatically replied that the book's point was
> to highlight the absurdity of applying business practices to fighting a
> war, and pointedly noted that the late Robert McNamara was the president
> of Ford Motor Co. before becoming Secretary of Defense during the first
> half of the U.S. commitment of conventional ground combat forces to the
> Vietnam War. I also found out that Donald Rumsfeld was the CEO of Searle,
> Inc., before becoming Secretary of Defense in 2001 which gave me pause at
> the striking parallel.
>
> Donald Albury wrote:
>>
>> I remember I was in grad school when I read Catch 22 in 1969. I was only
>> a
>> few months out of the Army, and I marveled that there had been as much
>> absurdity in WWII as I had seen in Vietnam.
>>
>> Donald Albury



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Re: Silence

Yeah, that could be somewhat jarring to hear.

Donald Albury wrote:
>
> I didn't want anyone looking at my background. A friend of mine from high
> school, who I had continued to associate with even when I was a campus cop,
> was a self-proclaimed communist, and had told me I was the one who started
> him down the path to political enlightment (that one floored me). Some
> other people I had associated with were active in the SDS around that time,
> as well.
>
> Donald Albury

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Absent Member.

Re: Silence

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:46:33 GMT, "dan c." <dytcheungDEL@hotmail.com.del>
wrote:

>Yeah, that could be somewhat jarring to hear.


It went back to the arguments about national health insurance we had in
high school. Apparently my skills in persuasion were better than I
realized. 🙂

Donald Albury
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