Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

Mary Matthews;1566325 wrote:
I think you'll find most of those wanting to "enter" the industry have gone
back to college, and those out here who've been doing it for years with no
college but lots of certs are back at college again. As California has
known for decades, it's not just about the technology, you have to
understand the business processes and needs in addition and how IT fits in.


We're down to one local training/testing center and the UAW folks who were
paid to retrain (on MY dime!) have figured out that IT isn't unionized and
they're no interested in putting in the work or effort necessary to stay in
the field.

Our local center is now offering rooms for rent in their facility.

>>> On 5/26/2008 at 1:36 AM, in message

<mathew35.3a05xz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
mathew35<mathew35@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
> I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and Inoticed.....
>
> THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>
> Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer classes....
> I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city
> havefolded.
>
> I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you
> guysperform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a
> week".
>
> Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of
> theweek, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the
> "ITGod complex").
>
> Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
> Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in
> computers"people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people
> recoveredour industry from that yet?
>
> I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long, thatlooking
> up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go backto typing
> :)--

mathew35-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----mathew35's Profile:
> NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491 this thread:
> State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS


I don't think it's fair for the white collars to say that a degree is necessary to understand business processes though. Maybe I'm just bitter, but when I want to hire someone I want someone who knows the game not someone who's studied it... People continuously make the mistake of associating formal education with aptitude ability and for that matter intelligence... Once again no offense no one in here has that elitist attitude, just wanting to discuss...
0 Likes
kathcarruthers Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

G of Borg wrote:
>> According to one Gen-Xer, the role of a help desk person is one of the
>> "least" stressful jobs. I figured she's young,

>
> You are probably referring to a Gen-Yer.
> I am a Gen-Xer and I'm not young anymore.


It's all relative. My mother calls my age group "youngsters". And
when did a "Generation" get to be a 10-year gap? When I was a kid, it
was at least twenty.

Kathryn Carruthers
0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

ROFL!! You write like my nephews do (guess I really shouldn't laugh, but
it's funny).

>>> On 5/27/2008 at 12:34 PM, in message

<qKW_j.1832$6C2.633@kovat.provo.novell.com>,
Matthew<"system[remove]tyrant"@g[ee]mail.com> wrote:
> I thought that was normal. I speecks thut wheyz all da timz.
>
> Mary Matthews wrote:
>> Well, no one says you have to spell correctly if you're a programmer.

> 🙂
>>
>> We had a bumper sticker at my college that stated what everyone knew

> about
>> the quality of engineer's spelling:
>>
>> "I are a gradiated engeneer". 🙂
>>
>>>>> On 5/27/2008 at 10:45 AM, in message

>> <a8V_j.1771$6C2.544@kovat.provo.novell.com>,
>> Matthew<"system[remove]tyrant"@g[ee]mail.com> wrote:
>>> Stoopud programmars. 😛
>>>
>>> Mary Matthews wrote:
>>>> They're paid more here too,
>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/27/2008 at 10:08 AM, in message
>>>> <6BU_j.1719$6C2.230@kovat.provo.novell.com>,
>>>> Matthew<"system[remove]tyrant"@g[ee]mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Mary Matthews wrote:
>>>>>> Guess it's time for me to return to the programming world then. 🙂
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/26/2008 at 1:39 PM, in message
>>>>>> <uBC_j.1553$6C2.1334@kovat.provo.novell.com>,
>>>>>> Matthew<"system[remove]tyrant"@g[ee]mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but where I live IT jobs don't pay


>>>>> well.
>>>>>>> If you want to make money in the computer world around here you

>> have
>>>>>>> to be a programmer. Coding is where the money is and it's still

all
>>
>>>>>>> hip
>>>>>>> and cool. Most people look at us IT people as expendable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mathew35 wrote:
>>>>>>>> I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and I
>>>>>>>> noticed.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer
>>>> classes....
>>>>>>>> I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city
>>>> have
>>>>>>>> folded.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you

>> guys
>>>>>>>> perform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a
>>>> week".
>>>>>>>> Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of

>> the
>>>>>>>> week, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the

>> "IT
>>>>>>>> God complex").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
>>>>>>>> Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in

computers"
>>>>>>>> people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people

>> recovered
>>>>>>>> our industry from that yet?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long, that
>>>>>>>> looking up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go

>> back
>>>>>>>> to typing 🙂
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Only if you live here. 😛

>

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

Oh cool...maybe I can just be a farmer in the meantime. 🙂

>>> On 5/27/2008 at 12:38 PM, in message

<UNW_j.1834$6C2.212@kovat.provo.novell.com>, G of
Borg<G@collectiveAB1.com> wrote:
>> Guess it's time for me to return to the programming world then. 🙂

>
> Ah, but here's the rub...India/China/Brazil are full of programmers
> that
> will do it for half or two thirds of what you would. An H1B will do it
> for
> half as much also. Until enough people exit the field salaries will
> stay
> lower and someone is going to inherit a horrible mess when these things
> fall into disrepair. That'll be the next big salary job, fixing and
> rehabbing decrepit networks.

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

You're right, you do need the experience, but from an HR stand point, the
degree is an easy "check mark" and when sorting through 500 resumes for 1
spot, it will make you stand out in the pack of others with X number of
years experience and the required certs. Also helps get you past the auto
filters on my HR databases that are used PRIOR to the resumes being
forwarded to the hiring manager.

And this is why the "human" networking is so important...how else are you
going to get past the bots and the right person>

>>> On 5/27/2008 at 1:36 PM, in message

<arsmitty86.3a2xxz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
arsmitty86<arsmitty86@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
> Mary Matthews;1566325 Wrote: > I think you'll find most of those wanting


> to "enter" the industry have> gone
>> back to college, and those out here who've been doing it for years with>


> no
>> college but lots of certs are back at college again. As California>

has
>> known for decades, it's not just about the technology, you have to
>> understand the business processes and needs in addition and how IT fits>


> in.
>>
>>
>> We're down to one local training/testing center and the UAW folks who>

> were
>> paid to retrain (on MY dime!) have figured out that IT isn't unionized>


> and
>> they're no interested in putting in the work or effort necessary to>

> stay in
>> the field.
>>
>> Our local center is now offering rooms for rent in their facility.
>>
>> >>> On 5/26/2008 at 1:36 AM, in message

>> <mathew35.3a05xz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
>> mathew35<mathew35@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
>> > I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and>

Inoticed.....
>> >
>> > THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>> >
>> > Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer>

classes....
>> > I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city
>> > havefolded.
>> >
>> > I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you
>> > guysperform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a
>> > week".
>> >
>> > Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of
>> > theweek, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the
>> > "ITGod complex").
>> >
>> > Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
>> > Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in
>> > computers"people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people
>> > recoveredour industry from that yet?
>> >
>> > I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long,>

> thatlooking
>> > up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go backto>

typing
>> > :)--

>>

mathew35-------------------------------------------------------------------

>> -----mathew35's Profile:
>> > 'NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491'>

> (http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5153View) this thread:
>> > 'State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS'>

> (http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974)
>
> I don't think it's fair for the white collars to say that a degree
> isnecessary to understand business processes though. Maybe I'm
> justbitter, but when I want to hire someone I want someone who knows
> thegame not someone who's studied it... People continuously make
> themistake of associating formal education with aptitude ability and
> forthat matter intelligence... Once again no offense no one in here
> hasthat elitist attitude, just wanting to discuss...-- In God We Trust,
> All others we virus scan!
> A+, Network+, NCA, CLDA,

NAI------------------------------------------------------------------------
arsmitty86's Profile:
> http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5958View this thread:
> http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

There's so much more learning that goes on in college besides the book
learning.

You may have the technical skills to do you job, but how can you prove you
understand the business processes, what other departments go through (ever
done any accounting work? it's boring, but necessary), and that you can
write to a leave above you. Do you understand CBAs and ROIs?

The days of being a good tech and having a wide open budget has been long
gone for years. Now it has to be in business terms, not geek terms.

UoP is an easy B.S., my MBA classes are cake walk, but then I had a hard BS
program and worked 2-3 jobs while getting it, so I tend to expect a lot.
🙂

My sister finished up there though and she's got a job as a DBA even though
most of California looks down on UoP degrees (we all got spoiled by the Cal
State system).

And there are some benies to the UoP program that I found useful. Learning
to work in a team with people who either don't know how to work or don't
want to work taught me a lot about negotiations and patience.

You're right your age will go against you, not because of what they think
of your resume, but more because you haven't done college and they don't
know if they can trust you to be there Monday morning at 8am when they need
you. (This is true for college grads with little to no work experience as
well).

Your best bet is to work on the "human" networking...go to local user
groups, get to know the other techs in the area and ask about new job opps
and if they'll carry your resume in for you. Works for me! But then I am
old.

>>> On 5/27/2008 at 1:26 PM, in message

<arsmitty86.3a2xhc@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
arsmitty86<arsmitty86@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
> dwiseman2;1566108 Wrote: > The testing centre I go to is always full of
> under 25 year olds either> taking courses or doing the tests for the
> courses once their time in> the course has finished.
>>
>> When planning to book an exam, I have always had ring up and make sure>


> I can get in on my preferred days because of the amount of testing they>


> do.
>>
>> That being said, they are also the testing centre thats furthest west>

> of Sydney.
>>
>> And who ever said IT wasn't hip? Who do they call at work when their>

> computer doesnt work? The IT Guys.
>>
>> If anything its one of the most thankless jobs.

>
> I agree. I would like to re-emphasize a lot of the problem is
> STILLdealing with the "I can make money in the computer field". I
> stumbledacross this proffession quite out of luck. I didn't get a
> computeruntil I was 13 because we were too poor (I'm only 22 so this
> wasn't thenorm at my age). Oh and btw being 22 works against me.... If


> I can getan interview I'll get the job, but most ppl wont give me the
> time of daybecause they think my resume is BS. Basically we got screwed


> on it someguy told us he'd build us an awesome system, and it wound up
> being aPOS. Well, my Dad got into learning about them (always had a
> nack forelectronics and mechanics) and I was fascinated by it. I
> decided thatbeing a rockstar wasn't a practical dream and I should leave


> guitar asa hobby. I started learning more and more and got more and
> morefascinated the more I learned... Got my A+ right after I
> graduatedhighschool and went straight to work. Now imagine how
> frustrating itis to me now seeing all my peers graduating from college
> and takingwhat should be MY jobs. I've paid my dues and busted my butt
> to getwhere I'm at, and yet that damn piece of paper somehow makes
> THEMmanagement material... They have a degree in computer science
> andsomehow land a job as a network administrator??? Have they
> everinstalled a server? NO. Switch? Router? Run Cable? Even
> installedXP on a desktop? NooOO!!!! What about linux? Fresh Graduate:


> "Ohyeah I read about that once..." God it's frustrating. Thats why
> I'mgoing back to school starting next week actually. University
> ofPhoenix gonna fix me up with a nice degree so I can step up where I
> seeothers failing.... I'm sorry, no disrespect to education, but IMHO,
> theschool of hard knocks has always fared better for me... I can
> runcircles around most of these "educated ppl"... Hope I didn't
> offendanyone and sorry for the long post...-- In God We Trust, All others


> we virus scan!
> A+, Network+, NCA, CLDA,

NAI------------------------------------------------------------------------
arsmitty86's Profile:
> http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5958View this thread:
> http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974

0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

Mary Matthews;1566638 wrote:
There's so much more learning that goes on in college besides the book
learning.

You may have the technical skills to do you job, but how can you prove you
understand the business processes, what other departments go through (ever
done any accounting work? it's boring, but necessary), and that you can
write to a leave above you. Do you understand CBAs and ROIs?

The days of being a good tech and having a wide open budget has been long
gone for years. Now it has to be in business terms, not geek terms.

UoP is an easy B.S., my MBA classes are cake walk, but then I had a hard BS
program and worked 2-3 jobs while getting it, so I tend to expect a lot.
🙂

My sister finished up there though and she's got a job as a DBA even though
most of California looks down on UoP degrees (we all got spoiled by the Cal
State system).

And there are some benies to the UoP program that I found useful. Learning
to work in a team with people who either don't know how to work or don't
want to work taught me a lot about negotiations and patience.

You're right your age will go against you, not because of what they think
of your resume, but more because you haven't done college and they don't
know if they can trust you to be there Monday morning at 8am when they need
you. (This is true for college grads with little to no work experience as
well).

Your best bet is to work on the "human" networking...go to local user
groups, get to know the other techs in the area and ask about new job opps
and if they'll carry your resume in for you. Works for me! But then I am
old.


That's exactly the kind of analysis I have come to expect from people with degrees and exactly why I don't want to even bother getting one... I've run a tech bench and a wide range of contracts with different people... I didn't say that I didn't have a good job . I finally found someone that came up the hard way and even though they have their degree now, they understand its possible to gain knowledge other ways. I have a pretty good handle on cost/benefit analysis and Return on Investment... I know how to figure TCO and have a good handle on dealing with the larger picture... I also know our place and understand that the IT department is largely dismissed as overhead when it isn't that simple... In my experience it's the people running the show responsible for the problems because they understand things like CBA but without knowing the technical end of things make very poor decisions seeing no benefit in something they'll wish they bought in 5 years when their network goes to pot. The system is broken and thats all there is to it... When I get my degree it will go where it belongs... In a drawer. I'm getting it because society thinks I should. Other than that it's worthless in my mind. I've been watching my poor wife suffer through highschool part two since we've been married and the things shes been "learning" (I use that term loosley as professors could care less if you learn. They don't want you to think they want you to regurgitate) are about as "valuable" as a bucket full of red clay. I told you I was bitter. Sorry If I came off to harsh, I'm really not a bad person, thats just a sore spot for me.
0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

I read that as "DSREPAIR". 🙂


"G of Borg" <G@collectiveAB1.com> wrote in message
news:UNW_j.1834$6C2.212@kovat.provo.novell.com...
>> Guess it's time for me to return to the programming world then. 🙂

>
> Ah, but here's the rub...India/China/Brazil are full of programmers that
> will do it for half or two thirds of what you would. An H1B will do it
> for
> half as much also. Until enough people exit the field salaries will stay
> lower and someone is going to inherit a horrible mess when these things
> fall into disrepair. That'll be the next big salary job, fixing and
> rehabbing decrepit networks.



0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

Mary Matthews;1566632 wrote:
You're right, you do need the experience, but from an HR stand point, the
degree is an easy "check mark" and when sorting through 500 resumes for 1
spot, it will make you stand out in the pack of others with X number of
years experience and the required certs. Also helps get you past the auto
filters on my HR databases that are used PRIOR to the resumes being
forwarded to the hiring manager.

And this is why the "human" networking is so important...how else are you
going to get past the bots and the right person>

>>> On 5/27/2008 at 1:36 PM, in message

<arsmitty86.3a2xxz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
arsmitty86<arsmitty86@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
> Mary Matthews;1566325 Wrote: > I think you'll find most of those wanting


> to "enter" the industry have> gone
>> back to college, and those out here who've been doing it for years with>


> no
>> college but lots of certs are back at college again. As California>

has
>> known for decades, it's not just about the technology, you have to
>> understand the business processes and needs in addition and how IT fits>


> in.
>>
>>
>> We're down to one local training/testing center and the UAW folks who>

> were
>> paid to retrain (on MY dime!) have figured out that IT isn't unionized>


> and
>> they're no interested in putting in the work or effort necessary to>

> stay in
>> the field.
>>
>> Our local center is now offering rooms for rent in their facility.
>>
>> >>> On 5/26/2008 at 1:36 AM, in message

>> <mathew35.3a05xz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
>> mathew35<mathew35@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
>> > I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and>

Inoticed.....
>> >
>> > THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>> >
>> > Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer>

classes....
>> > I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city
>> > havefolded.
>> >
>> > I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you
>> > guysperform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a
>> > week".
>> >
>> > Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of
>> > theweek, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the
>> > "ITGod complex").
>> >
>> > Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
>> > Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in
>> > computers"people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people
>> > recoveredour industry from that yet?
>> >
>> > I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long,>

> thatlooking
>> > up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go backto>

typing
>> > :)--

>>

mathew35-------------------------------------------------------------------

>> -----mathew35's Profile:
>> > 'NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491'>

> (NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491) this thread:
>> > 'State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS'>

> (State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS)
>
> I don't think it's fair for the white collars to say that a degree
> isnecessary to understand business processes though. Maybe I'm
> justbitter, but when I want to hire someone I want someone who knows
> thegame not someone who's studied it... People continuously make
> themistake of associating formal education with aptitude ability and
> forthat matter intelligence... Once again no offense no one in here
> hasthat elitist attitude, just wanting to discuss...-- In God We Trust,
> All others we virus scan!
> A+, Network+, NCA, CLDA,

NAI------------------------------------------------------------------------
arsmitty86's Profile:
> NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491 this thread:
> State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS


See above. Exactly why I'm ashamed to even go back.. I'm selling out to a broken system for the sake of financial gain...
0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

Keith V. Klenke;1566352 wrote:
IT is the janitorial service of the "white collar profession". It just
doesnt pay as well these days as real janitorial jobs though. Nor do IT
workers get as much respect as real janitors.....

--
abeNd.org - Novell News for IT Professionals - Novell News for IT Professionals
-
"mathew35" <mathew35@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:mathew35.3a05xz@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and I
> noticed.....
>
> THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>
> Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer classes....
> I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city have
> folded.
>
> I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you guys
> perform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a week".
>
> Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of the
> week, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the "IT
> God complex").
>
> Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
> Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in computers"
> people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people recovered
> our industry from that yet?
>
> I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long, that
> looking up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go back
> to typing 🙂
>
>
> --
> mathew35
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> mathew35's Profile: NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: mathew35
> View this thread: State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS
>


Amen
0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

In fairness to all involved: As Mary said, there are some extra benefits
that one gets from college. I see plenty of IT guys what can't even spell
no how, and even if'n they could they wood use pore gramer.

You seem to write cogently and have the ability to express yourself. That
is definitely a good thing! Might I suggest that if you think you stand to
gain little from U of P, then why not go to a school where your education
gets broadened more...like with History, English, Language?

As an employer myself, I look for much more than whether or not a guy has
done ring & string, and my leanings for management material would be someone
with a real education.

I, too, am sorry if that offends.


"arsmitty86" <arsmitty86@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:arsmitty86.3a331c@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> Mary Matthews;1566638 Wrote:
>> There's so much more learning that goes on in college besides the book
>> learning.
>>
>> You may have the technical skills to do you job, but how can you prove
>> you
>> understand the business processes, what other departments go through
>> (ever
>> done any accounting work? it's boring, but necessary), and that you
>> can
>> write to a leave above you. Do you understand CBAs and ROIs?
>>
>> The days of being a good tech and having a wide open budget has been
>> long
>> gone for years. Now it has to be in business terms, not geek terms.
>>
>> UoP is an easy B.S., my MBA classes are cake walk, but then I had a
>> hard BS
>> program and worked 2-3 jobs while getting it, so I tend to expect a
>> lot.
>> 🙂
>>
>> My sister finished up there though and she's got a job as a DBA even
>> though
>> most of California looks down on UoP degrees (we all got spoiled by the
>> Cal
>> State system).
>>
>> And there are some benies to the UoP program that I found useful.
>> Learning
>> to work in a team with people who either don't know how to work or
>> don't
>> want to work taught me a lot about negotiations and patience.
>>
>> You're right your age will go against you, not because of what they
>> think
>> of your resume, but more because you haven't done college and they
>> don't
>> know if they can trust you to be there Monday morning at 8am when they
>> need
>> you. (This is true for college grads with little to no work experience
>> as
>> well).
>>
>> Your best bet is to work on the "human" networking...go to local user
>> groups, get to know the other techs in the area and ask about new job
>> opps
>> and if they'll carry your resume in for you. Works for me! But then I
>> am
>> old.

>
> That's exactly the kind of analysis I have come to expect from people
> with degrees and exactly why I don't want to even bother getting one...
> I've run a tech bench and a wide range of contracts with different
> people... I didn't say that I didn't have a good job . I finally
> found someone that came up the hard way and even though they have their
> degree now, they understand its possible to gain knowledge other ways.
> I have a pretty good handle on cost/benefit analysis and Return on
> Investment... I know how to figure TCO and have a good handle on
> dealing with the larger picture... I also know our place and understand
> that the IT department is largely dismissed as overhead when it isn't
> that simple... In my experience it's the people running the show
> responsible for the problems because they understand things like CBA
> but without knowing the technical end of things make very poor
> decisions seeing no benefit in something they'll wish they bought in 5
> years when their network goes to pot. The system is broken and thats
> all there is to it... When I get my degree it will go where it
> belongs... In a drawer. I'm getting it because society thinks I
> should. Other than that it's worthless in my mind. I've been watching
> my poor wife suffer through highschool part two since we've been married
> and the things shes been "learning" (I use that term loosley as
> professors could care less if you learn. They don't want you to think
> they want you to regurgitate) are about as "valuable" as a bucket full
> of red clay. I told you I was bitter. Sorry If I came off to harsh,
> I'm really not a bad person, thats just a sore spot for me.
>
>
> --
> In God We Trust, All others we virus scan!
> A+, Network+, NCA, CLDA, NAI
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> arsmitty86's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5958
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974
>



0 Likes
Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: State of IT - your thoughts...

And as I just replied, a degree is a good indicator (not perfect, but good)
for whether or not a firm-wide email is going to sound like it came from an
incompetent....it is generally an indication that you've read and written at
a college level, which is the minimum for management, no matter your
experience.


"Mary Matthews" <mlm23NO@SPAMcalvin.edu> wrote in message
news:483C1192.F781.00FC.0@SPAMcalvin.edu...
> You're right, you do need the experience, but from an HR stand point, the
> degree is an easy "check mark" and when sorting through 500 resumes for 1
> spot, it will make you stand out in the pack of others with X number of
> years experience and the required certs. Also helps get you past the auto
> filters on my HR databases that are used PRIOR to the resumes being
> forwarded to the hiring manager.
>
> And this is why the "human" networking is so important...how else are you
> going to get past the bots and the right person>
>
>>>> On 5/27/2008 at 1:36 PM, in message

> <arsmitty86.3a2xxz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
> arsmitty86<arsmitty86@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
>> Mary Matthews;1566325 Wrote: > I think you'll find most of those wanting

>
>> to "enter" the industry have> gone
>>> back to college, and those out here who've been doing it for years with>

>
>> no
>>> college but lots of certs are back at college again. As California>

> has
>>> known for decades, it's not just about the technology, you have to
>>> understand the business processes and needs in addition and how IT fits>

>
>> in.
>>>
>>>
>>> We're down to one local training/testing center and the UAW folks who>

>> were
>>> paid to retrain (on MY dime!) have figured out that IT isn't unionized>

>
>> and
>>> they're no interested in putting in the work or effort necessary to>

>> stay in
>>> the field.
>>>
>>> Our local center is now offering rooms for rent in their facility.
>>>
>>> >>> On 5/26/2008 at 1:36 AM, in message
>>> <mathew35.3a05xz@no-mx.forums.novell.com>,
>>> mathew35<mathew35@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote:
>>> > I was testing the other day at my fav testing place - and>

> Inoticed.....
>>> >
>>> > THIS PLACE IS DEAD!
>>> >
>>> > Seriously, no one testing, very few people taking computer>

> classes....
>>> > I dug around and noticed most computer training places in my city
>>> > havefolded.
>>> >
>>> > I asked the girl at the front desk, "how many cert tests do you
>>> > guysperform any more?". She replied "not too many, maybe a couple a
>>> > week".
>>> >
>>> > Now I realize this isn't the late 90's when IT was the flavor of
>>> > theweek, but without us the world would crumble (no I don't have the
>>> > "ITGod complex").
>>> >
>>> > Are we just not "hip" anymore, or are we just taken for granted?
>>> > Sure we took a huge hit by the "I can make big money in
>>> > computers"people, but haven't us die hard, bore and bred info people
>>> > recoveredour industry from that yet?
>>> >
>>> > I guess I've been holed away working on my network so long,>

>> thatlooking
>>> > up from my keyboard is a bit of a shock. I think I'll go backto>

> typing
>>> > :)--
>>>

> mathew35-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>> -----mathew35's Profile:
>>> > 'NOVELL FORUMS - View Profile: a0210491'>

>> (http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5153View) this thread:
>>> > 'State of IT - your thoughts... - NOVELL FORUMS'>

>> (http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974)
>>
>> I don't think it's fair for the white collars to say that a degree
>> isnecessary to understand business processes though. Maybe I'm
>> justbitter, but when I want to hire someone I want someone who knows
>> thegame not someone who's studied it... People continuously make
>> themistake of associating formal education with aptitude ability and
>> forthat matter intelligence... Once again no offense no one in here
>> hasthat elitist attitude, just wanting to discuss...-- In God We Trust,
>> All others we virus scan!
>> A+, Network+, NCA, CLDA,

> NAI------------------------------------------------------------------------
> arsmitty86's Profile:
>> http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=5958View this thread:
>> http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=329974



0 Likes
The opinions expressed above are the personal opinions of the authors, not of Micro Focus. By using this site, you accept the Terms of Use and Rules of Participation. Certain versions of content ("Material") accessible here may contain branding from Hewlett-Packard Company (now HP Inc.) and Hewlett Packard Enterprise Company. As of September 1, 2017, the Material is now offered by Micro Focus, a separately owned and operated company. Any reference to the HP and Hewlett Packard Enterprise/HPE marks is historical in nature, and the HP and Hewlett Packard Enterprise/HPE marks are the property of their respective owners.