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idahotech Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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Upgrade path

Hello Everyone,

I am hoping this is in the right area. We are currently on Novell 6.5 Sp8 with Zenworks 7. We have been thinking about doing a fresh install of Micro-focus, but I am unsure which way to go....

We have, as I mentioned above with Zenworks all on 1 server, our printing is done through the new iPrint 3 on VMWare....just want to update to the latest and greatest and start fresh....just don't know where to start or keep what we have.

Working in a school district everyone has gotten used to the NAL launcher. I guess what i am looking for is a document, help file something to tell me with what I have what is the best solution to not throw a large wrench in the works and just a small one with like having them back everything up etc....

I see there are new version of Zen and Micro-focus uses OES still it looks like, so what is the easiest path to get up to the latest, without upgrading what I have. I want to start clean and go from there.

If not I appreciate your time in reading this.

Jim
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Upgrade path

IdahoTech;2494627 wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I am hoping this is in the right area. We are currently on Novell 6.5 Sp8 with Zenworks 7. We have been thinking about doing a fresh install of Micro-focus, but I am unsure which way to go....

For the initial discussion this forum is okay. There are forums dedicated to specific products which are monitored by those of us with some expertise in those products.

There are many forums from which to choose. Some would even say too many. 😉

These are the ones I would recommend for upgrading NetWare. If you read through the posts in these forums you may get some ideas.

  1. Forum: OES-NW: Install-Upgrade
  2. Forum: OES: Migration


    For questions/issues related to ZENworks, look here:
    Forum: ZENworks Configuration Management



    I see there are new version of Zen and Micro-focus uses OES still it looks like, so what is the easiest path to get up to the latest, without upgrading what I have. I want to start clean and go from there.

    Jim


    You haven't provided a lot of details so please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious.

    NetWare 6.5 (OES2 NetWare) SP8 (plus a few subsequent patches) was the last version of NetWare. Newer versions of OES are Linux based.

    Since NetWare can't be upgraded to Linux, you have to create a new server. The first thing to consider is whether the new server will be in the same tree or if you want to begin with a new tree.

    Please tell us a bit more about your environment:

    • Do you only have one NetWare server?
    • Is it physical or virtual?
    • Are you planning to run your new server(s) under VMware?
    • Do you have any Linux experience?


    There is much to consider. Once you provide some additional information I would suggest we continue the NetWare upgrade discussion in one of the NetWare forums. ZENworks is a separate discussion and should take place in one of the ZENworks forums. I have little ZENworks experience so I will leave that discussion to others who are more qualified.

    A good place to start is with the documentation:
    Open Enterprise Server 2018
    ZENworks 2017 Update 4

    I have written a couple of Cool Solutions which you may find helpful.
_____
Kevin Boyle - Knowledge Partner - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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idahotech Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Upgrade path

Thanks for the information!

I have been looking to upgrade to the newest version of Novell or shall I say Micro Focus for a long time just haven't had the incentive.

I will look into those forums you suggested as well. Yes sometimes there seems to be too much out there...

As for the questions here are the ones you asked:

Do you only have one NetWare server?
Is it physical or virtual?
Are you planning to run your new server(s) under VMware?
Do you have any Linux experience?


Well I think I can answer most of those in one reply. The server I am currently running Is Novell Open Enterprise Server Netware 6.5 Support pack revision 8 with eDir version 8.8 SP4 SMP NDS version 20217.06
This server has been virtualized now for a while at the limits of VMWares capabilities ( at the time of making it) at 2 TB.

I have been looking to create a new server from scratch as well. And as for linux experience. Well I have a linux desktop, laptop and have been using and working with it since the early 90's. When it all used to be free and to download and use. Am I a expert, no, not that I would think. Do I understand it and can move around with some help docs, yes.....

I was just curious with what I have in place currently right now, what the path would be in downloading and installing the latest and try to keep some form of function to what i have now.

What concerns me more than anything is Zenworks. I guess it is the Novell Curse, it runs so well, why upgrade? Because there is so much more we can offer and do with it.

Working in a school district our teachers have become accustomed to the NAL launcher, and believe it or not when I took it away a while ago they went all kinds of crazy on me to bring it back. Well it was their admin who wanted to try it without it, and we can say he is no longer here because of it.

Anyway, I do not know WHY more schools don't use Micro Focus/Novell anymore. The security alone is phenomenal. And for schools the pricing is 1000 times better than MS.

Well off my soap box and will say always have been and always will be a strict supporter of the old Novell, New Microfocus software.

Also, sorry for the late reply. We are battling a flu here and i was one of the lucky ones to get it. We had to close school for a few days, and being back we are still down in student population and I do not think we should be in school to let everyone stop passing it around...but feeling better now.
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Upgrade path

IdahoTech;2494913 wrote:
Thanks for the information!

...

The server I am currently running Is Novell Open Enterprise Server Netware 6.5 Support pack revision 8 with eDir version 8.8 SP4 SMP NDS version 20217.06
This server has been virtualized now for a while at the limits of VMWares capabilities ( at the time of making it) at 2 TB.

I have been looking to create a new server from scratch as well. And as for linux experience. Well I have a linux desktop, laptop and have been using and working with it since the early 90's. When it all used to be free and to download and use. Am I a expert, no, not that I would think. Do I understand it and can move around with some help docs, yes.....


This is encouraging. The biggest barrier sysadmins face when moving from NetWare to OES Linux is little or no Linux experience. I know because I've been there! 🙂

Having already virtualised your NetWare server just makes your migration that much easier. You are already familiar with the Novell services that NetWare provides. When running on SLES the services are essentially the same only the implementation has changed.

I haven't worked in a school environment. I know educational pricing is a huge benefit but if I remember correctly it doesn't come with support, is that correct? Do you have access to Micro Focus (Novell) support? It's always comforting to know they have your back.

While I'm at it, are you familiar with the Micro Focus (ex-Novell) Technology Transfer Partners (“TTP”) program? It's a great way for customers in an educational setting to share experiences and provide support to each other.

OES has come a long way since the NetWare days:

  • Open Enterprise Server 2
  • Open Enterprise Server 11
  • Open Enterprise Server 2015
  • Open Enterprise Server 2018

If you refer to the documentation you'll see there was a lot more detail about NetWare migrations in the earlier OES versions. Unfortunately, the migration documentation was not kept up to date to account for changes in the newer OES versions. We can get into the specifics a bit later.

TID 7003221 shows the relationship between OES and SLES releases.

When upgrading from one release to a newer one, choices made in the earlier release are often retained and you may not benefit from some of the newer features. The main one that comes to mind is different defaults for the file system. There were major changes in SLES12 including the use of btrfs as the default root file system.

If you are ready to tackle an upgrade, I would suggest your target be OES2018. SP1 is in beta and should be available shortly but I wouldn't consider it just yet.

You didn't say whether you are planning to install the new server into the existing tree or if you are considering a new tree. Sometimes there are advantages to using a new tree if the old one is not optimal but it is generally easier to complete migrations between servers within the same tree.

Another thing to consider is a second OES server. Having an eDirectory replica on a second server is a great way to provide an extra level of protection should the unexpected happen.

In your original post you said:
We have been thinking about doing a fresh install of Micro-focus, but I am unsure which way to go....

Could you please elaborate and tell us what you may have been considering?
_____
Kevin Boyle - Knowledge Partner - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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mattjones1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Upgrade path

IdahoTech;2494913 wrote:

Working in a school district our teachers have become accustomed to the NAL launcher, and believe it or not when I took it away a while ago they went all kinds of crazy on me to bring it back. Well it was their admin who wanted to try it without it, and we can say he is no longer here because of it.


If they like NAL they're gonna go nuts for the ZENworks App!!!

In all seriousness, we did the exact same upgrade you did many years back (although we weren't virtualized). I'd recommend starting with OES also. NetWare to OES is very well documented so start with that. Honestly unless your tree is in a bad state I'd keep it. You don't need the complications of re-configuring everything to work with your new tree.

When you come around to ZENworks I'd spin up a new VM and start playing with it. Don't expect to get your production system up and running first time. Take your time and if you get in a mess trash it and start over. It really pays to learn how the bundles work - they're very different to how it works in ZENworks 7 and much more powerful.

I believe there is a migration tool for ZENworks (there used to be) but after much playing around with it I found it was better to build the bundles from scratch. This is where it pays to start cleanly. Also don't be afraid to ask questions there's some very experienced heads on here.
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idahotech Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: Upgrade path

Hello Kevin,

Sorry for the delay in answers. Been hectic here with the sickness going around and the snow and cold.

Anyway, I was planning on doing a fresh install on a VM with the new OES, and setting up a new tree and everything new. There are a few things I am worried about though that I have noticed with the tree I have up now.

1. I have iPrint running and when adding printers I have to go into the older server and show iPrint who can print from it. I have made sure that all the paths are correct and such, however there are some users who do not show up when searching for them to make them say a manager of a printer or admin under iPrint. I just put the context they are in and cross my fingers. Other users show up so I do not know what is going on there, but with the new install of OES 2018 and the iPrintVM I have running it should work better with the newest version of OES correct?

2. The Zenworks issue I have seen when looking into it is I believe it stated I cannot have Zenworks running already...I take that to mean that anywhere on my network I cannot have my Zenworks 7.1 running on my Tree. If I did run the appliance for Zenworks I would have to turn off the server I have now completely to run and install the new Zenworks appliance, so kinda takes the fun out of that of experimenting and trying things before summer break, or did I read that all wrong?

I am just thinking that the new version will work better with the newer iPrint appliance and the new Zenworks Appliance to make it go much smoother. In order for me to create application shortcuts for Zenworks is I have a VM running with XP and ConsoleOne on it so I can create new application shortcuts on the NAL and manage that part of Novell.

Like i said, it runs so well hate to update, but with some of the glitches i have discovered with say iprint appliance not seeing some users, even in the same context of ones I can see, would work better as well as just all around.

I am planning on just doing a fresh install, setting it all up and then making sure all the systems in our district have the new client to attach to the server.

The only other thing I wonder about is adding users. I have been using JRB Utilities for adding our students every fall and wonder if that will work with the new version? Or how to even bulk import them with it, if it even works to import them with the new OES.

Sorry about the rant and being all over the board, but haven't had my coffee yet this morning and with all that i do here it is hard to focus on one thing for a certain amount of time so when I write about this everything comes out at once. Just nice to have everyone as a sounding board to help sort out steps and things I need to do to ensure it gets done right, quickly, and painlessly....the last one never works out.....
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: Upgrade path

IdahoTech;2495887 wrote:
Hello Kevin,

Sorry for the delay in answers. Been hectic here with the sickness going around and the snow and cold.

Anyway, I was planning on doing a fresh install on a VM with the new OES, and setting up a new tree and everything new.

Hi Jim,

Much has changed since the days of NetWare. Even with your Linux experience you may find that the configuration you choose is not optimal and wish you could change it. This way you can always blow away your new server and start again without impacting your production NetWare system.


There are a few things I am worried about though that I have noticed with the tree I have up now.

Now is the time to sort through these issues. Although time consuming, I strongly advise you to read all the current documentation even if it means that you skip over sections that appear not to be relevant.


1. I have iPrint running and when adding printers I have to go into the older server and show iPrint who can print from it. I have made sure that all the paths are correct and such, however there are some users who do not show up when searching for them to make them say a manager of a printer or admin under iPrint. I just put the context they are in and cross my fingers. Other users show up so I do not know what is going on there, but with the new install of OES 2018 and the iPrintVM I have running it should work better with the newest version of OES correct?

iPrint runs as an appliance or it can implemented as a component of your new OES server. Both approaches have their own advantages. If you have iPrint questions, please ask in the iPrint forum. When posting please provide background information, especially the version/release you're using. It may be worthwhile to review recent posts to see what issues other users may be experiencing.


2. The Zenworks issue I have seen when looking into it is I believe it stated I cannot have Zenworks running already...I take that to mean that anywhere on my network I cannot have my Zenworks 7.1 running on my Tree. If I did run the appliance for Zenworks I would have to turn off the server I have now completely to run and install the new Zenworks appliance, so kinda takes the fun out of that of experimenting and trying things before summer break, or did I read that all wrong?

I am just thinking that the new version will work better with the newer iPrint appliance and the new Zenworks Appliance to make it go much smoother. In order for me to create application shortcuts for Zenworks is I have a VM running with XP and ConsoleOne on it so I can create new application shortcuts on the NAL and manage that part of Novell.

These questions are best answered in the ZENworks forums where members having the necessary expertise will be happy to help. Again, I recommend you first read the documentation.


Like i said, it runs so well hate to update, but with some of the glitches i have discovered with say iprint appliance not seeing some users, even in the same context of ones I can see, would work better as well as just all around.

I am planning on just doing a fresh install, setting it all up and then making sure all the systems in our district have the new client to attach to the server.

You can only do so much with an old server even if it is very reliable. Security is important and it is worth the upgrade for that reason alone.
Are you aware that you can install the latest OES client on your workstations ahead of time and they will provide access to your existing NetWare servers?


The only other thing I wonder about is adding users. I have been using JRB Utilities for adding our students every fall and wonder if that will work with the new version? Or how to even bulk import them with it, if it even works to import them with the new OES.

I don't have an answer for this one but that is the kind information you can obtain from members of the Micro Focus (ex-Novell) Technology Transfer Partners (“TTP”) program (membership is free).


Sorry about the rant and being all over the board, but haven't had my coffee yet this morning and with all that i do here it is hard to focus on one thing for a certain amount of time so when I write about this everything comes out at once. Just nice to have everyone as a sounding board to help sort out steps and things I need to do to ensure it gets done right, quickly, and painlessly....the last one never works out.....

One thing to keep on mind is this: Try to keep your posts short and limit a post to a single issue. It is quite reasonable to create multiple threads if you have several questions or issues to be resolved. It is much easier to deal with several individual questions than it is to respond to a long post like this one.

I would suggest that you start new threads in the appropriate forms if you wish to continue these discussions.
_____
Kevin Boyle - Knowledge Partner - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Who are the Knowledge Partners?
If you appreciate my comments, please click the Like button.
If I have resolved your issue, please click the Accept as Solution button.
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