dschaldedfg Absent Member.
Absent Member.
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VMWare Novell and XEN

Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11 for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks
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17 Replies
Marcel_Cox Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

I wouldn't bet my future on XEN with Novell products. If you read between
the lines of the various annoucements of Novell regarding future
virtualization directions for SLES, it looks like XEN is running the risk
of being dropped in future SLES versions, or at elast that it will no
longer be the preferred solution.

--
Marcel Cox
http://support.novell.com/forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcel Cox's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=8
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sveld1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

dschaldedfg;2005386 wrote:
Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11 for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks


My guess is XEN will probably be replaced by KVM in SLES 12.

Best regards, Sebastiaan Veld If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface, show your appreciation and click on the star below...
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

sveld wrote:
> dschaldedfg;2005386 Wrote:
>> Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect
>> XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11
>> for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so
>> and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks

>
> My guess is XEN will probably be replaced by KVM in SLES 12.
>
>


Maybe... but I somehow doubt it. KVM is still a ways from being "there".

It might be possible for it to be "there" as some point in SLES 12, but IMHO,
not initially. Deploy what works.... we can be patient.

Today, you have VMware which does it all... Xen which does a lot... KVM which
does VERY little. Not sure if KVM will ever support the gambit of OS's that
VMware supports as guests today... maybe... but I just don't see it.

Xen will continue, because it's the closest thing to be being "there" and NOT
being VMware today.

I think we all WANT KVM to displace it... but I think it's at least 3 years from
being able to do that (except for little things... with that said, I think lxc
makes better sense... let that mature a bit).
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

On 7/30/2010 7:36 AM, dschaldedfg wrote:
>
> Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect
> XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11
> for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so
> and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks
>
>


I've used XEN and I still like ESXi better.
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Bob-O-Rama
Visitor.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

cjcox;2005751 wrote:
sveld wrote:
> dschaldedfg;2005386 Wrote:
>> Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect
>> XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11
>> for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so
>> and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks

>
> My guess is XEN will probably be replaced by KVM in SLES 12.
>
>


Maybe... but I somehow doubt it. KVM is still a ways from being "there".


VMWare is expensive, and that cost nullifies a lot of the financial benefits of having it. In our data center > 60% of the workloads could easily be run on KVM, today, with more than acceptable performance, and without the expense of VMWare.

Regarding other technologies, I think moving backwards towards towards shared kernels, and other reversions, is a mistake.

KVM is much further long than your post would indicate. And with RedHat behind it, and a very active developer community working on it. It is already an appropriate technology for many workloads.

In about a year, I'd bet I could walk into any VMWare shop and move about 80% of the VM's to KVM with an incredible cost savings that would make all the cool sounding, but rarely used features seem an acceptable, albeit temporary loss.

The REAL question is how long will you have a data center. Google is coming. And they are bringing a 10GE fiber connection to your front door plumbed to a data center down the road. Do you think they will be running VMWare?

-- Bob
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

Matthew;2005756 wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:36 AM, dschaldedfg wrote:
>
> Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will affect
> XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on SLES11
> for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing so
> and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks
>
>


I've used XEN and I still like ESXi better.

Which is probably more a management thing than a stability/performance thing?

Ever had a look at Convirt? -it's a good addition to Xen (as also KVM) in terms of centrally being able to manage.. from any client platform.

ESX(i) gets really good when vCenter steps in... but that also means your cash steps out. Given, it's still the best, most versatile and easy to manage virtulizing platform out there, but not necessarily best value for money.
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jmarton2 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

Bob-O-Rama wrote:

> VMWare is expensive,


ESXi isn't. It's the same price as Xen or KVM.

--
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joe Marton Emeritus Knowledge Partner
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 02:26 +0000, Bob-O-Rama wrote:
> cjcox;2005751 Wrote:
> > sveld wrote:
> > > dschaldedfg;2005386 Wrote:
> > >> Just curious if anyone knows how the Novell VMWare alliance will

> > affect
> > >> XEN server and SLES11 moving forward? I have been using XEN on

> > SLES11
> > >> for almost a year now, and I wanted to know if I should cease doing

> > so
> > >> and switch back to VMWare? Any thoughts? Thanks
> > >
> > > My guess is XEN will probably be replaced by KVM in SLES 12.
> > >
> > >

> >
> > Maybe... but I somehow doubt it. KVM is still a ways from being
> > "there".
> >

>
> VMWare is expensive, and that cost nullifies a lot of the financial
> benefits of having it. In our data center > 60% of the workloads could
> easily be run on KVM, today, with more than acceptable performance, and
> without the expense of VMWare.


VMware costs for most deployments is negligible. It's like saying NAS
or SAN is too expensive to deploy. Sure... one or two clients... yes,
it's probably too expensive, however in most deployments the cost of the
infrastructure won't show up in light of the cost of other pieces.

My beef with VMware is that it is not "open".

>
> Regarding other technologies, I think moving backwards towards towards
> shared kernels, and other reversions, is a mistake.
>
> KVM is much further long than your post would indicate. And with
> RedHat behind it, and a very active developer community working on it.
> It is already an appropriate technology for many workloads.


Red Hat is behind a bastardized NON-KVM version of KVM... sorry.

With that said, I do believe that Red Hat EVENTUALLY will deliver RHEV
based on the KVM what we know and love today... but right not it is
something TOTALLY different.

Also, RHEV is restricted the small handful of guests that they will let
you use... sure, that COULD be the lion share of an all Red Hat shop...

>
> In about a year, I'd bet I could walk into any VMWare shop and move
> about 80% of the VM's to KVM with an incredible cost savings that would
> make all the cool sounding, but rarely used features seem an acceptable,
> albeit temporary loss.


Well.. I DO hope, like you that all is Linux by then.. but I think we're
still a ways from that. So until that day, I think VMware will have a
life.

>
> The REAL question is how long will you have a data center. Google is
> coming. And they are bringing a 10GE fiber connection to your front
> door plumbed to a data center down the road. Do you think they will be
> running VMWare?


The idea there is to abstract far enough away from the OS so that
VMware, etc aren't an issue at all. Everything is a set of services
(e.g. "Regarding other technologies, I think moving backwards towards
towards shared kernels, and other reversions, is a mistake".. that's
actually Google's approach).


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grimlock1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

This is all a mute point as Zynga will have virtualized all OS's running
as facebook app's in the next 2 years. 🙂

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 17:23 +0000, Patrick Farrell wrote:
> This is all a mute point as Zynga will have virtualized all OS's running
> as facebook app's in the next 2 years. 🙂
>


Deploy new virtual servers using Farmville's easy to use interface!
Harvest old servers regularly.


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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

On 8/2/10 12:56 AM, magic31 wrote:
> Which is probably more a management thing than a stability/performance
> thing?
>
> Ever had a look at Convirt? -it's a good addition to Xen (as also KVM)
> in terms of centrally being able to manage.. from any client platform.
>
> ESX(i) gets really good when vCenter steps in... but that also means
> your cash steps out. Given, it's still the best, most versatile and
> easy to manage virtulizing platform out there, but not necessarily best
> value for money.



Bah. Value you say. Not a requirement in the IT industry. 😛

My needs are small, like my budget. I've not noticed any performance
issues with ESXi and management is (was, haven't looked in awhile) than
XEN. ESXi had better OS support too.

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grimlock1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

On 8/2/2010 1:46 PM, Chris Cox wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 17:23 +0000, Patrick Farrell wrote:
>> This is all a mute point as Zynga will have virtualized all OS's running
>> as facebook app's in the next 2 years. 🙂
>>

>
> Deploy new virtual servers using Farmville's easy to use interface!
> Harvest old servers regularly.
>
>


Novell will then build an app called Mafia Wars Identity Manager auto
user manager and promptly get sued by zynga causing them to shut it
down. The open suse group will immediately release a new version of it
with the same name under a new site and keep it going through user
contributions.

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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

dschaldedfg <dschaldedfg@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in
news:dschaldedfg.4ewxdz@no-mx.forums.novell.com:

> moving forward?


to what? Against what? I dislike this term 🙂

--
Ciao, Dave
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sveld1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: VMWare Novell and XEN

cjcox;2005751 wrote:

Deploy what works.... we can be patient.


That's what I do and that is most of the time ESX(i), some XEN. I'm not in a hurry:)
ESX is easy to handle, even for customers, and supports almost every workload you want to virtualise.

The best VMWare+Novell could bring is better product integrations around like ZCM and View or a VI Linux Appliance. Reality is that View and VI do depend on Windows mechanisms for Windows desktop and server deployments, so this may never happen.

Best regards, Sebastiaan Veld If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface, show your appreciation and click on the star below...
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