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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're
> moving to Exchange". I had that happen once.


Had a similar with the CFO type. They kept messing up the PDA connect
setup (about every 3 months) and blaimed GroupWise on it with the "I
never had issues with Outlook" routine. Gave them Outlook and guess
what in about 3 months the PDA connection software was not doing what
they wanted..... Hmmmmm I wonder what the common thread is here.......

just because they have Outlook does not mean they MUST use Exchange.
If you want to sell big dollars in hardware do a MS approved Exchange
design. Wooboy does it need a BUNCH of servers.....
(DCs, PKI, front end, back end, edge, etc)

--
Timothy
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Jim Henderson,
>> You'll have a CXO mandate
>> it because "everybody" uses outlook.

>
> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're moving
> to Exchange". I had that happen once.
>


Just once? That's always the *real* reason, at least I've never heard a
valid business case for migrating.


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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:52:26 +0000, Timothy Leerhoff wrote:

>> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're
>> moving to Exchange". I had that happen once.

>
> Had a similar with the CFO type. They kept messing up the PDA connect
> setup (about every 3 months) and blaimed GroupWise on it with the "I
> never had issues with Outlook" routine. Gave them Outlook and guess
> what in about 3 months the PDA connection software was not doing what
> they wanted..... Hmmmmm I wonder what the common thread is here.......


Heh, yep. But of course at that point, the money's been spent.

> just because they have Outlook does not mean they MUST use Exchange. If
> you want to sell big dollars in hardware do a MS approved Exchange
> design. Wooboy does it need a BUNCH of servers..... (DCs, PKI, front
> end, back end, edge, etc)


Yeah, but if the people holding the budget don't know that....

And even if they do, they often will cite supportability issues of using
Outlook with non-Exchange servers. Even the hypothetical "Microsoft
changes something in how Outlook talks to the server, now Novell is
playing catch-up". That is one of the things that bit the Ximian
connector for Exchange (for Evolution).

Jim
--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:05:14 +0000, DougB wrote:

> Jim Henderson,
>>> You'll have a CXO mandate
>>> it because "everybody" uses outlook.

>>
>> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're
>> moving to Exchange". I had that happen once.
>>
>>

> Just once? That's always the *real* reason, at least I've never heard a
> valid business case for migrating.


I've only had it happen once because I only migrated once. 😉

Every other company I worked for either had GroupWise already and stayed
on it, or used something else when I got there and stayed with it until
after I left.

Jim
--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:55 +0000, Adam Gabriel wrote:

> I thought I heard GW8 would work with any LDAP backend, not just eDir.


For authentication... but not for management. That requires eDir.



--
Joe
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joe Marton Emeritus Knowledge Partner
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:46:16 +0000, Matthew wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:39:30 +0000, Matthew wrote:
>>>
>>>> What if OpenLDAP was the directory that everybody used. No more AD or
>>>> eDir.
>>> Then trees would be a lot smaller, the openLDAP server doesn't scale
>>> the way eDir does.
>>>
>>> Jim

>> What if eDir was open sourced and became the defacto standard for all
>> servers or anything needing a directly service.

>
> We've had that discussion in here before. eDir uses licensed technology
> from RSA Data Security and as such cannot be open sourced.
>
> Jim
>


Hmmm too bad they just can't give it away, and charge for support. I
mean does Novell actually license eDirectory as a separate product
anymore? I'm just wondering if it has a revenue stream of it's own, or
if all revenue comes from products that depend on it?
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:35:02 +0000, Patrick Farrell wrote:

> Hmmm too bad they just can't give it away, and charge for support. I
> mean does Novell actually license eDirectory as a separate product
> anymore? I'm just wondering if it has a revenue stream of it's own, or
> if all revenue comes from products that depend on it?


I know that we do (or used to) include a 250,000 user object license with
many products. I don't know if there is a separate revenue stream or not
for it these days.

Jim

--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:35:02 +0000, Patrick Farrell wrote:

> Hmmm too bad they just can't give it away, and charge for support. I
> mean does Novell actually license eDirectory as a separate product
> anymore?


Yep... just a few months ago I got a quote for eDir so that we could use
eDir to manage user accounts for our website. It was dirt cheap, though,
something like pennies per eDir user.



--
Joe
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joe Marton Emeritus Knowledge Partner
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Jim Henderson wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:52:26 +0000, Timothy Leerhoff wrote:
>
> >> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're
> >> moving to Exchange". I had that happen once.

> >
> > Had a similar with the CFO type. They kept messing up the PDA
> > connect setup (about every 3 months) and blaimed GroupWise on it
> > with the "I never had issues with Outlook" routine. Gave them
> > Outlook and guess what in about 3 months the PDA connection
> > software was not doing what they wanted..... Hmmmmm I wonder what
> > the common thread is here.......

>
> Heh, yep. But of course at that point, the money's been spent.
>
> > just because they have Outlook does not mean they MUST use
> > Exchange. If you want to sell big dollars in hardware do a MS
> > approved Exchange design. Wooboy does it need a BUNCH of
> > servers..... (DCs, PKI, front end, back end, edge, etc)

>
> Yeah, but if the people holding the budget don't know that....


But they didn't know it was still a GroupWise backend. 🙂


> And even if they do, they often will cite supportability issues of
> using Outlook with non-Exchange servers. Even the hypothetical
> "Microsoft changes something in how Outlook talks to the server, now
> Novell is playing catch-up". That is one of the things that bit the
> Ximian connector for Exchange (for Evolution).


We have had several clients explore moving to MS. They have all choked
over the number of servers needed to just duplicate services. One site
was going from 4 NetWare servers to 21 Windows boxes. They choked at
the price for a MS approved config.

Another needed to buy 41 more servers. Were they shocked!

--
Timothy
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:44:57 +0000, Matthew wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:46:16 +0000, Matthew wrote:
>>>
>>>> What if eDir was open sourced and became the defacto standard
>>> Oh, and while I absolutely *love* eDir, just open sourcing something
>>> doesn't make it the defacto standard. For a case in point, let's look
>>> at OpenOffice. 🙂
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> yes, but we were what if'ing. Anything is possible in what if'ing. 😄

>
> LOL
>
>
>


What if instead of LOL it LMAO. Maybe instead of either of those what
if we simply --> 😄 <--. What if we what if'ed the what ifs?
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're moving
> to Exchange". I had that happen once.


They are "Outlook users" here and I'm fairly certain that we are gonna
be using Zimbra as the backend. Mostly a cost thing, but I like Zimbra.
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:56:29 +0000, Matthew wrote:

> What if instead of LOL it LMAO. Maybe instead of either of those what
> if we simply --> 😄 <--. What if we what if'ed the what ifs?


I'd need IDM to keep it all in sync. 😉

Jim



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:00:20 +0000, Matthew wrote:

>> Or a CXO mandate that says "Outlook is what I'm used to, so we're
>> moving to Exchange". I had that happen once.

>
> They are "Outlook users" here and I'm fairly certain that we are gonna
> be using Zimbra as the backend. Mostly a cost thing, but I like Zimbra.


I've used it a little as well - I operate a website for a local nonprofit
organization, and Zimbra is what XMission uses.

It seems pretty decent.

Jim



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:49:30 +0000, Timothy Leerhoff wrote:

>> > just because they have Outlook does not mean they MUST use Exchange.
>> > If you want to sell big dollars in hardware do a MS approved Exchange
>> > design. Wooboy does it need a BUNCH of servers..... (DCs, PKI, front
>> > end, back end, edge, etc)

>>
>> Yeah, but if the people holding the budget don't know that....

>
> But they didn't know it was still a GroupWise backend. 🙂


Well, they'd assume that what they directed and paid for is what's on the
backend.

>> And even if they do, they often will cite supportability issues of
>> using Outlook with non-Exchange servers. Even the hypothetical
>> "Microsoft changes something in how Outlook talks to the server, now
>> Novell is playing catch-up". That is one of the things that bit the
>> Ximian connector for Exchange (for Evolution).

>
> We have had several clients explore moving to MS. They have all choked
> over the number of servers needed to just duplicate services. One site
> was going from 4 NetWare servers to 21 Windows boxes. They choked at
> the price for a MS approved config.
>
> Another needed to buy 41 more servers. Were they shocked!


Well, you know the old saying "Nobody got fired for buying IBM"? 😉

Jim



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Let's say hypothetically speaking:

What if Novell changed Groupwise so that it could use AD in addition to eDir? (I'm not going to get into the how much effort it would be, etc.)

Does anyone think it would help organizations either:

a) Keep groupwise (instead of migrating to Exchange)
or
b) Get new customers?


I think it would be wise to disconnect GW from the eDir reliance like ZEN has.
It might be a way to help some keep GW, but the integration with 3rd-party items really is key.
Get new customers? Unlikely, but possible.
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