jmarton2 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:46:01 +0000, kjhurni wrote:

> Sharepoint MOSS may not be free, but I don't need to buy extra 3rd party
> add-ons to integrate Sharepoint MOSS with Office 2007/Outlook/Exchange.


No but for most GW shops they *will* have to spend money to switch to
Exchange (Windows licenses, Exchange licenses, possibly Office upgrades
if still running Office 2003, etc). In that case it's probably cheaper
to buy Sharepoint integration for GW than to buy all the Microsoft
licensing to switch to Exchange just to avoid 3rd party integrations for
SharePoint.

> DMS in GroupWise is lacking to the 3 top vendors in Gartner's magic
> quadrant.


All any vendor has to do is pay Gartner enough $$$ and now their product
is in the "magic quadrant" so this rating is hardly relevant.



--
Joe
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Joe Marton Emeritus Knowledge Partner
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Joseph Marton wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:46:01 +0000, kjhurni wrote:
>
>> Sharepoint MOSS may not be free, but I don't need to buy extra 3rd party
>> add-ons to integrate Sharepoint MOSS with Office 2007/Outlook/Exchange.

>
> No but for most GW shops they *will* have to spend money to switch to
> Exchange (Windows licenses, Exchange licenses, possibly Office upgrades
> if still running Office 2003, etc). In that case it's probably cheaper
> to buy Sharepoint integration for GW than to buy all the Microsoft
> licensing to switch to Exchange just to avoid 3rd party integrations for
> SharePoint.


If you believe Microsoft it takes a lot of servers and a dedicated
administrator to run Exchange 2007 (I don't know if that's actually
true, but when I talked to a Microsoft rep he recommended at least two
server and highly recommended hiring a dedicated Exchange administrator.)

>
>> DMS in GroupWise is lacking to the 3 top vendors in Gartner's magic
>> quadrant.

>
> All any vendor has to do is pay Gartner enough $$$ and now their product
> is in the "magic quadrant" so this rating is hardly relevant.


Novell needs to fork over the dough. 😛

GroupWise has a hard road to travel in the Microsoft world. It's also
now stuck competing with products like Scalix and Zimbra and some of the
other open source groupware programs. In bad economic times I don't see
a lot of places dumping current groupwise installs for exchange though.
I could be wrong, but I get the vibe that everybody's just waiting to
see what happens.

New installs are a different story. I've been talking to some people I
went to high school with who now work in the tech sector and many of
them are talking about using the "alternative exchange" programs.
Especially if they don't need outlook integration.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:35:14 +0000, Matthew wrote:


> I will rewrite that later with your suggestion. 😛


LOL



--
Jim Henderson, CNA6, CDE, CNI, LPIC-1, CLA10, CLP10
Novell Training Services
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Knowledge Partner
Knowledge Partner

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Hi,

zeffan wrote:
>
> I think it would be wise to disconnect GW from the eDir reliance like
> ZEN has.


Oh yeah, it was *such* a huge success with ZEN.
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

NOT!
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Hi,

Matthew wrote:
>
> > I think it would be wise to disconnect GW from the eDir reliance like
> > ZEN has.
> > It might be a way to help some keep GW, but the integration with
> > 3rd-party items really is key.
> > Get new customers? Unlikely, but possible.

>
> I think it's quite possible for GW to gain new customers, but I agree
> that something will probably have to change. What those are I don't know.


Groupwise has gained very noticeable amounts of new customers since it
runs natively on Linux. It's market share is actually rising since then.
I've personally migrated several tenthousand seats from all sorts of
open source email systems to GW in the last few years (along with quite
a few of Exchange > GW migrations). When it comes to manageability and
scalability, there is simply *no* contender to groupwise on a Linux
backend.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Hi,

kjhurni wrote:
>
> But then again I guess I can't really blame a large vendor for pouring
> money into a product that maybe 1% of their customers use (okay 3%
> possibly at the max depending upon which IDC or Gartner report you look
> at).


Huh? You're saying Groupwise has a market share of 1 to 3%? Says who,
and where?

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Micro Focus Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
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grimlock1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Massimo Rosen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> zeffan wrote:
>> I think it would be wise to disconnect GW from the eDir reliance like
>> ZEN has.

>
> Oh yeah, it was *such* a huge success with ZEN.


They will have all the ZCM issues solved by the time Windows 7 ships...
Unfortunately they will be solved for Vista only 😛
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grimlock1 Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Massimo Rosen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> kjhurni wrote:
>> But then again I guess I can't really blame a large vendor for pouring
>> money into a product that maybe 1% of their customers use (okay 3%
>> possibly at the max depending upon which IDC or Gartner report you look
>> at).

>
> Huh? You're saying Groupwise has a market share of 1 to 3%? Says who,
> and where?
>
> CU,

http://www.crn.com/software/198800689 In 2007 it had risen from 6.7% to
7.4%

http://theemailwars.com/2008/09/16/email-client-market-share-report/
Gw's not mentioned here.

http://www.messagingwire.com/aev-154.aspx

I can't find anything more current than 2007 that lists actual numbers.



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Massimo Rosen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Matthew wrote:
>>> I think it would be wise to disconnect GW from the eDir reliance like
>>> ZEN has.
>>> It might be a way to help some keep GW, but the integration with
>>> 3rd-party items really is key.
>>> Get new customers? Unlikely, but possible.

>> I think it's quite possible for GW to gain new customers, but I agree
>> that something will probably have to change. What those are I don't know.

>
> Groupwise has gained very noticeable amounts of new customers since it
> runs natively on Linux. It's market share is actually rising since then.
> I've personally migrated several tenthousand seats from all sorts of
> open source email systems to GW in the last few years (along with quite
> a few of Exchange > GW migrations). When it comes to manageability and
> scalability, there is simply *no* contender to groupwise on a Linux
> backend.
>
> CU,


I won't argue scalability as I think Groupwise probably scales better
than anything available, but manageability is subjective at best. Of
course a persons views on how easy or hard something is to manage is
normally based on the persons experience with the product.

Two things are keeping me from Groupwise at the moment. The first and
most important is cost. Being a non profit organization the money we
had planned on spending for an e-mail server has gone to other things in
these economically bad times. To be fair with cost though when
comparing Exchange to Groupwise they were about the same cost wise, but
Groupwise comes with the OS and the client software as part of the total
price where Exchange didn't.

The second thing, which is probably trivial at best, is Outlook
integration. While I would rather people use the groupwise client or
the web interface some here absolutely refuse. Not a lot I can do about
it. Now I know that Groupwise has an outlook connector, but it doesn't
sound like they are maintaining it. I could be very wrong about that.

Now the system I've chosen for us is Zimbra. Two reason. Cost and
manageability. It's about a third of the price of groupwise, but it
comes with less features. However, it's very easy to manage and
integrates with LDAP and AD (not that I plan on integrating it with
either at the moment. It also has a free open source version that will
allow me to move to the paid version when we can afford it.

So there it is. Groupwise was my first choice, but because of
circumstance I'm going with my second choice. My plan isn't the best
plan in the world, but I'm doing the best with what I've got to work with.
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Just for the record I have been reading over some of the technical
challenges Novell faces in making a Outlook connector. It seems that,
as one novell guy put it, programs like Zimbra were designed from the
ground up as an exchange replacement where Groupwise was not and is also
a product in direct competition with Exchange.

I thought that was a good bit of information to help keep things in
context. 😄
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buckesfeld Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:57:21 GMT
Matthew <"system[spam]tyrant"@gmail[dot].com> wrote:

> I won't argue scalability as I think Groupwise probably scales better
> than anything available, but manageability is subjective at best. Of
> course a persons views on how easy or hard something is to manage is
> normally based on the persons experience with the product.


Strongly disagree. I can make you a successful (note: Not
perfect) Groupwise admin in one day, and you don't even have to read the
manual for that.

> To be fair with cost
> though when comparing Exchange to Groupwise they were about the same
> cost wise, but Groupwise comes with the OS and the client software as
> part of the total price where Exchange didn't


So that's not *exactly* what I'd call a fair cost comparison 😉

U
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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Uwe Buckesfeld wrote:
> Strongly disagree. I can make you a successful (note: Not
> perfect) Groupwise admin in one day, and you don't even have to read the
> manual for that.


Thats still an opinion though. After all I'm kind of thick skulled. 😛


> So that's not *exactly* what I'd call a fair cost comparison 😉


Rarely a cost comparison is fair on any level unless you have two
different products with exactly the same features. I like to decide
what I want and then figure out which product suits those needs the best
at the lowest TCO. That's not always very easy either.
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ecyoung Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

You're too optimistic. They didn't even solve the Windows XP issues within
the mainstream support phase of that OS..

"Patrick Farrell" <pfarrell@packereng.com> wrote in message
news:3YICl.288$s8.157@kovat.provo.novell.com...
> They will have all the ZCM issues solved by the time Windows 7 ships...
> Unfortunately they will be solved for Vista only 😛



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Anonymous_User Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

Looks like, at least from the info shown in the IT in Action tour - "GW9"
will be disconnected from eDir & can use AD if you want. No more C1 either,
it will be it's own managment web interface like ZCM (not imanager either,
since I guess that is dead & outdated as well). Personally, I don't mind
having the C1 integration, so if they could have kept that, that would have
been great. As far as the AD side of things, why not make an MMC and
integrate it into active directory users & computers (like exch03 used to
be, instead of splitting it off into a diff mmc like exch07 did). If they
can pull off the webinterface as well as Omni-ts has with eControl, that
wouldnt be a bad secondary way to admin gwise...

Add in all the novell product & 3rd party product integration (especially
social networking & CRM) that "GW9" will have, the ability to run it on pure
AD, and what will hopefully be a considerably lower price/user than
exchange - what then would be a reason to go with exchange over gwise?

--


-------------------------------------------------------
"kjhurni" <kjhurni@no-mx.forums.novell.com> wrote in message
news:kjhurni.3q105b@no-mx.forums.novell.com...
>
> Just stirring up the hornets nest.
>
> Let's say hypothetically speaking:
>
> What if Novell changed Groupwise so that it could use AD in addition to
> eDir? (I'm not going to get into the how much effort it would be,
> etc.)
>
> Just a what if.
>
> Does anyone think it would help organizations either:
>
> a) Keep groupwise (instead of migrating to Exchange)
> or
> b) Get new customers?
>
> Just a thought and just curious to see what the other opinions are.
>
>
> --
> kjhurni
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> kjhurni's Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=734
> View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=367906
>
>


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TheBarron Absent Member.
Absent Member.

Re: What if GroupWise could use AD?

buckesfeld;1772160 wrote:

Strongly disagree. I can make you a successful (note: Not
perfect) Groupwise admin in one day, and you don't even have to read the
manual for that.



Cool. So it should only take you an hour or so to write that up into a doc. I'll look for it from you next week. 😉
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